[2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Discuss and rate Once Upon a Time episodes

Did you like 2x12?

Yes
25
40%
No
22
35%
Meh
15
24%
 
Total votes: 62
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby ladymoiraine » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:38 pm

Sandy wrote:I suppose you won't be happy to hear that Neal is going to be in 2x14 and every episode after that for the rest of the season :P



Great, i am happy Emma will reunite with him again.
And yes some of us speak only about regina, it is our right, because I watch the show only because of her you know. Otherwise I don't watch TV too boring.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby ladymoiraine » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:39 pm

shirona wrote:^I know that and nope - I'm not happy at all :P But there's a chance he won't be in S3.

The Wizard of Oz will be showed in S3 if OUAT will be renewed :D

Why are you not happy at all? Henry will be with his father, it is important for a child to be with his father.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby shirona » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:41 pm

Oh I hope she's going to kick his sorry butt. I really DON'T want them to be together. No, no, NO!

I'm not happy b/c I don't like Neal. Besides, Emma lied to Henry about his father. And David is better father-figure than Neal could ever be. I really don't want to see him in S3.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Sandy » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:52 pm

ladymoiraine wrote:
Sandy wrote:I suppose you won't be happy to hear that Neal is going to be in 2x14 and every episode after that for the rest of the season :P


Great, i am happy Emma will reunite with him again.
And yes some of us speak only about regina, it is our right, because I watch the show only because of her you know. Otherwise I don't watch TV too boring.


I am not telling you not to talk about her I am just saying if we could try not let discussions about her take over every episode topic especially since the discussions are repetitive. In fact it might be better to create a thread about Regina's ARC this season that way people can easily follow it and can return to one central place and discuss the latest development in her particular storyline with each new episode. Like the "Whose worse - Regina or Rumpel" topic though that also has become repetitive but at least it is its own thread so it doesn't encroach on other threads. Not telling you what to do just giving a suggestion.

I don't like Neal either to be honest but whether or not he'd be a good father to Henry is something I can't judge since he hasn't actually been given the chance to be a father. I just seriously don't want him to be Bae, but it looks like I might be disappointed on that front.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Wolven Voltage » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:56 pm

Sandy--

Thank you for seeing the point I was trying to get across.

Sandy/Shirona/Lady--

Its not that I or others who feel this way don't want her around, she is one of my favorite characters. I absolutely feel she should have many key situations in episodes, and I don't object that she does.

My tiff is that when there is an episode, or in this case a conversation about an episode that has high points for multiple characters who they too have their key situations it seems each time the thread becomes a debate over our EQ. You're right, Lady. You have the full right to talk as much about her as you wish-- but there already is heavy discussion over her all over the forums. I see Regina populating more than Rumbelle. I'm not implying Regina shouldn't be discussed at all, of course not. She should be discussed just as much as all the others, but others themselves aren't very discussed. I love Regina as much as the next Regal, I just don't only love her.

As an example; What if Ruby had the amount of key moments that Regina did and Regina had a few, would Ruby have the same amount of discussion claim? Probably not, because it isn't the episode its self that is bothering; (I mean this in the kindest way) It's the sort of bullying over the rest of the room and it takes so much away from the series.

In a nutshell, you may only come for Regina but I stay for everyone, and I also have just as right to be able to engage about my favorite characters; that includes Regina ;)
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Wolven Voltage » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:01 pm

Oh I agree, Sandy. Regina should have her own Thread (not including theories about her) fully dedicated to her. She is a powerful character and needs her own space to have her following. Its not pushing her into a corner, its saying "She is so big, she doesn't fit in the small space" type of situation
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Caroline » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:25 pm

It's a good idea Sandy, maybe we can have a thread for each character, or at least the main ones.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Heidirs » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:49 am

I would really like to have "character appreciation" threads, and everyone can theorize and love on their favorite separate characters.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Wolven Voltage » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:11 am

Yes, Heidirs. Kind of like a Dedication thread. One location to put all the random pictures, love, debates, and Tomfoolery they want on that character.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Janie32 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:43 am

I voted "Meh".



Wolven Voltage wrote:Yes, Heidirs. Kind of like a Dedication thread. One location to put all the random pictures, love, debates, and Tomfoolery they want on that character.


I think there's an evil regal thread already. I haven't been here in a long time but I remember seeing one.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Echo-AU » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:38 am

ladymoiraine wrote:
shirona wrote:^I know that and nope - I'm not happy at all :P But there's a chance he won't be in S3.

The Wizard of Oz will be showed in S3 if OUAT will be renewed :D

Why are you not happy at all? Henry will be with his father, it is important for a child to be with his father.


I'm sure it wasn't your intention, but this is an incredibly fast way to devalue the love and nurturing that an adoptive parent or parents/single parent/gay parents can give to their child.

The show is already doing this by pushing the concept that biological is better than adoptive.. to want a man in Henry's life that no one knows anything about (and the last we saw of him was as a felon who just hadn't been caught) to me, seems ridiculous. Although I'm sure that's what the show will push because they do seem to enjoy marginalizing as much of their audience as they can in any given season.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby ladymoiraine » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:25 am

Echo-AU wrote:
ladymoiraine wrote:
shirona wrote:^I know that and nope - I'm not happy at all :P But there's a chance he won't be in S3.

The Wizard of Oz will be showed in S3 if OUAT will be renewed :D

Why are you not happy at all? Henry will be with his father, it is important for a child to be with his father.


I'm sure it wasn't your intention, but this is an incredibly fast way to devalue the love and nurturing that an adoptive parent or parents/single parent/gay parents can give to their child.

The show is already doing this by pushing the concept that biological is better than adoptive.. to want a man in Henry's life that no one knows anything about (and the last we saw of him was as a felon who just hadn't been caught) to me, seems ridiculous. Although I'm sure that's what the show will push because they do seem to enjoy marginalizing as much of their audience as they can in any given season.


As you said, it wasn't my intention (and besides I certainly don't want to look ridiculous :lol: ). And I agree with you about the show. That's why I hate the Regina/Henry/Emma relationship, it is full of prejudices. I don't know how I would react if I was an adoptive parent (sending insults to the writers maybe).
But well i must agree I have some prejudices too, not that I would judge anyone in real life but still deep inside of me....
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Heidirs » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:37 pm

Echo-AU wrote:I'm sure it wasn't your intention, but this is an incredibly fast way to devalue the love and nurturing that an adoptive parent or parents/single parent/gay parents can give to their child.

The show is already doing this by pushing the concept that biological is better than adoptive.. to want a man in Henry's life that no one knows anything about (and the last we saw of him was as a felon who just hadn't been caught) to me, seems ridiculous. Although I'm sure that's what the show will push because they do seem to enjoy marginalizing as much of their audience as they can in any given season.


I'm sorry, I don't mean to rant, but as a writer myself, this is one of my biggest pet peeves. Just because Henry ends up with Emma over Regina does not mean the show is "pushing the concept" that biological is better than adoptive. It's just that Henry was adopted by the friggin' Evil Queen. And let's face it, we saw in season one that she was cold and manipulative toward Henry. So, yes, Emma was better in that case. But just because she is his biological mother and Regina isn't does not mean the writers are stating that biological parents are better than adoptive ones.

It's like people saying that a book with Christian themes in it is pushing Christianity. No. If I wanted to push Christianity on people, I'd write a friggin' book on Christianity.

Regina was bad for Henry because she was manipulative and horrible to him. Emma was good for him because she actually cared. It has nothing to do with biological vs adoptive.

[/soap box]
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby liolet » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:38 pm

Heidirs wrote:
Echo-AU wrote:I'm sure it wasn't your intention, but this is an incredibly fast way to devalue the love and nurturing that an adoptive parent or parents/single parent/gay parents can give to their child.

The show is already doing this by pushing the concept that biological is better than adoptive.. to want a man in Henry's life that no one knows anything about (and the last we saw of him was as a felon who just hadn't been caught) to me, seems ridiculous. Although I'm sure that's what the show will push because they do seem to enjoy marginalizing as much of their audience as they can in any given season.


I'm sorry, I don't mean to rant, but as a writer myself, this is one of my biggest pet peeves. Just because Henry ends up with Emma over Regina does not mean the show is "pushing the concept" that biological is better than adoptive. It's just that Henry was adopted by the friggin' Evil Queen. And let's face it, we saw in season one that she was cold and manipulative toward Henry. So, yes, Emma was better in that case. But just because she is his biological mother and Regina isn't does not mean the writers are stating that biological parents are better than adoptive ones.

It's like people saying that a book with Christian themes in it is pushing Christianity. No. If I wanted to push Christianity on people, I'd write a friggin' book on Christianity.

Regina was bad for Henry because she was manipulative and horrible to him. Emma was good for him because she actually cared. It has nothing to do with biological vs adoptive.

[/soap box]


I agree, I don't think this has anything to do with comparing biological/adoptive parents, but rather that the Evil Queen adopted the Savior's son and during a time when she had cursed everyone. The Charmings' family was ripped away because of the curse, and now it's about trying to put it back together.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby ihr » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:42 pm

I will have to disagree with you. I feel very much that the show does a great disservice to the adoption issue.
Starting with trope about an "evil" woman as the adoptive mother v. a supposedly "good" woman as the biological mother.
A bio-mother gives up her child for good, another woman raises him as her own. But, she is not a real mother?

Henry was raised by a woman who loved him and tried to do her best for him. That her best wasn't enough,sometimes, is another issue.
She isn't a bad parent and before the book, they probably had normal relationship.
She raised him well.
Emma is not a better parent. She is not a parent at all.
In s1 we see her doing very questinable and selfish thinghs with regard to Henry - using him to illegaly enter Regina's garage, trying to kidnap him are just 2 examples.

By The mere fact that she feels that she is entitled to even be in Henry's life, the show send a mesasage.
The fact that a bunch of strangers seem to think that they are entitled to decide whether Regina should or should see Henry just because they share some genes, send a message.
Their sense of entitlment to even interfere with Regina/Henry situation come from the fact that they share some genes with him.

If that's not Biology above all, I don't know what is
Last edited by ihr on Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby shirona » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:44 pm

If being good means letting your kid skip the school, break the law (or actually ASKING HIM to break the law so you could enter someone's house and take a look at things while they take a shower), play in the dangerous place (yes, destroyed "castle" was a dangerous place) - yeah, Emma is amazing.
No, Regina was never manipulative toward Henry. She was never cold and horrible. Are we even watching the same show? Do you have kids? Look, she sent him to a psychiatrist b/c he started to act weird, different toward her. I'd do exactly the same. I'd be afraid there's something wrong with the kid. Wasn't she afraid in the Pilot when Henry was missing? Didn't she CRIED in 1x05 when Henry went to that old mine? It wasn't acting. He's her son, she loves him. Have you seen 2x12? Did you see the photo and palm-print? They were happy, but HE changed toward her. So yeah, it's really poor writing in this case and I can't understand how they can push this idea of bio being better than adopted. Also I can't understand why they make Emma act against the law (google what is closed adoption, read it and don't tell me the adoption was faked, b/c it wasn't, it's adoption through the court of law, both Emma's and Regina's names were written in the case file and CLOSED by the court of law). Evil Queen or not, Regina is Henry's mother and she'd never hurt him.

I think we need some topics about most important characters in the show too... Too much OT here.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby ladymoiraine » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:53 pm

ihr wrote:I will have to disagree with you. I feel very much that the show does a great disservice to the adoption issue.
Starting with trope about an "evil" woman as the adoptive mother v. a supposedly "good" woman as the biological mother.
A bio-mother gives up her child for good, another woman raises him as her own. But, she is not a real mother?

Henry was raised by a woman who loved him and tried to do her best for him. That her best wasn't enough,sometimes, is another issue.
She isn't a bad parent and before the book, they probably had normal relationship.
She raised him well.
Emma is not a better parent. She is not a parent at all.
In s1 we see her doing very questinable and selfish thinghs with regard to Henry - using him to illegaly enter Regina's garage, trying to kidnap him are just 2 examples.

By The mere fact that she feels that she is entitled to even be in Henry's life, the show send a mesasage.
The fact that a bunch of strangers seem to think that they are entitled to decide whether Regina should or should see Henry just because they share some genes, send a message.
Their sense of entitlment to even interfere with Regina/Henry situation come from the fact that they share some genes with him.

If that's not Biology above all, I don't know what is

Very good post as usual, ihr (exactly what I feel). I prefered no to answer because I was growing nervous and my post would be too sarcastic especially toward that sentence:
Regina was bad for Henry because she was manipulative and horrible to him. Emma was good for him because she actually cared. It has nothing to do with biological vs adoptive.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby ihr » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:19 pm

ladymoiraine wrote:
ihr wrote:I will have to disagree with you. I feel very much that the show does a great disservice to the adoption issue.
Starting with trope about an "evil" woman as the adoptive mother v. a supposedly "good" woman as the biological mother.
A bio-mother gives up her child for good, another woman raises him as her own. But, she is not a real mother?

Henry was raised by a woman who loved him and tried to do her best for him. That her best wasn't enough,sometimes, is another issue.
She isn't a bad parent and before the book, they probably had normal relationship.
She raised him well.
Emma is not a better parent. She is not a parent at all.
In s1 we see her doing very questinable and selfish thinghs with regard to Henry - using him to illegaly enter Regina's garage, trying to kidnap him are just 2 examples.

By The mere fact that she feels that she is entitled to even be in Henry's life, the show send a mesasage.
The fact that a bunch of strangers seem to think that they are entitled to decide whether Regina should or should see Henry just because they share some genes, send a message.
Their sense of entitlment to even interfere with Regina/Henry situation come from the fact that they share some genes with him.

If that's not Biology above all, I don't know what is

Very good post as usual, ihr (exactly what I feel). I prefered no to answer because I was growing nervous and my post would be too sarcastic especially toward that sentence:
Regina was bad for Henry because she was manipulative and horrible to him. Emma was good for him because she actually cared. It has nothing to do with biological vs adoptive.


You'll have to forgive the poster above who obviously doesn't watch the show.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Heidirs » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:28 pm

shirona wrote:If being good means letting your kid skip the school, break the law (or actually ASKING HIM to break the law so you could enter someone's house and take a look at things while they take a shower), play in the dangerous place (yes, destroyed "castle" was a dangerous place) - yeah, Emma is amazing.
No, Regina was never manipulative toward Henry. She was never cold and horrible. Are we even watching the same show? Do you have kids? Look, she sent him to a psychiatrist b/c he started to act weird, different toward her. I'd do exactly the same. I'd be afraid there's something wrong with the kid. Wasn't she afraid in the Pilot when Henry was missing? Didn't she CRIED in 1x05 when Henry went to that old mine? It wasn't acting. He's her son, she loves him. Have you seen 2x12? Did you see the photo and palm-print? They were happy, but HE changed toward her. So yeah, it's really poor writing in this case and I can't understand how they can push this idea of bio being better than adopted. Also I can't understand why they make Emma act against the law (google what is closed adoption, read it and don't tell me the adoption was faked, b/c it wasn't, it's adoption through the court of law, both Emma's and Regina's names were written in the case file and CLOSED by the court of law). Evil Queen or not, Regina is Henry's mother and she'd never hurt him.

I think we need some topics about most important characters in the show too... Too much OT here.


Maybe we aren't watching the same show.

Regina sent Henry to therapy because she wanted his thoughts about her being the Evil Queen out of his head, thoughts that she knew were true. She sends him to shrink, making him think there's something wrong with him, when in fact there isn't. She demands Archie make Henry give up these thoughts about her, even though Archie has told her several times that telling Henry he's crazy would break him. Regina doesn't care, she just wants those thoughts gone.

Graham tells Regina to end the feud with her and Emma, or Henry is going to get hurt. And where does Regina's thoughts go? To hurting Henry. She deliberately sets up the scene where Emma says Henry's crazy so that he'll hear her. Because Regina wants him to be hurt. She frames Emma to have her arrested so she can tell Henry what a horrible person Emma is for the exact same reason. She deliberately acts to hurt Henry.

She tears down Henry's playground, knowing that its his favorite place. She makes up that it's unsafe as an excuse to tear it down because she knows he and Emma meet there.

In season one, Regina demonstrated again and again that she didn't care about Henry's feelings. She only cared that Henry cared about her. She was just as bad Cora. She didn't care what Henry wanted, just what she wanted for Henry.

While I believe that Regina has changed, and truly does love Henry now. It's very clear that she had a very different idea about love was in season one. She has grown of the course of the show and I would agree that she should be a part of Henry's life. But she was horrid to him at the beginning of season one.
Last edited by Heidirs on Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby RebeccaMatthews » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:33 pm

shirona wrote:Look, she sent him to a psychiatrist b/c he started to act weird, different toward her.


They were happy, but HE changed toward her.


Because he started to notice things, like the fact that he was the only one aging in Storybrooke. Regina sent him to Archie because she wanted to keep her secret that she cursed an entire world and then some to get her revenge on Snow White for Daniel's death, or did you miss that part? We're missing the key piece of information in what caused the relationship between Regina and Henry to go sour and for Henry to be lonely to the point that MM gave Henry the book of fairytales and he sought out Emma.

Also I can't understand why they make Emma act against the law (google what is closed adoption, read it and don't tell me the adoption was faked, b/c it wasn't, it's adoption through the court of law, both Emma's and Regina's names were written in the case file and CLOSED by the court of law).


I've noticed that both you and ihr both like to bring up that the adoption was legal because it was done through a court of law. IMO, any adoption that Mr. Gold arranged shouldn't be held to the same standards as a normal adoption, especially when it comes to the Evil Queen adopting the Savior's child. Subconsciously or by means of the curse, there was a reason that Mr. Gold arranged for this particular child to be adopted by the Evil Queen.

In world or theirs, there's always a cost when dealing with Rumpelstiltskin unless he chooses otherwise (Henry's burn).

Look at what we learned in this episode. Frankenstein was being sent off to war cuz his father was cutting off funding for his research, Rumpel paid him a visit so Frankenstein would come to FTL to lie to Regina to drive her a little closer to casting the curse Rumpel created to find his son in exchange Rumpel would fund Frankenstein's experiments.

Evil Queen or not, Regina is Henry's mother and she'd never hurt him.


But she did hurt him emotionally to the point he sought out Emma by withholding the whole "I cursed the entire town to forget who they really are because my mortal enemy told my wicked mother about my true love in another world where my mother then proceeded to kill my true love in front of me" and by sending him to Archie. Unintentionally she hurt him when she tried to poison Emma when she was leaving at the end of last season but then Henry ate the turnover and had the nightmare's, and the feud between Regina and Emma all last season.

Physically, she took care of his every need, but there was something emotionally missing from their relationship that wasn't being meet on Henry's end.
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