[2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Discuss and rate Once Upon a Time episodes

Did you like 2x12?

Yes
25
40%
No
22
35%
Meh
15
24%
 
Total votes: 62
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shirona
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby shirona » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:44 pm

^I'm too tired to argue, sorry, but you're completely wrong about all of it. Looks like we're watching different shows. Maybe ihr will try to explain it point by point. And most likely you don't know how the law works. It doesn't metter WHO was a media in this adoption. It's legal. End of the topic here.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Jennie » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:53 pm

It's called interpretation. Even the law is open for interpretation.

I can see both sides, but until Regina is able to cut her ties with Cora, I don't think Henry would be safe with her, emotionally if not physically.

Each side is going to argue the same points over and over again...what's the point, right? :shrug2:
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Heidirs » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:54 pm

RebeccaMatthews wrote:
shirona wrote:Also I can't understand why they make Emma act against the law (google what is closed adoption, read it and don't tell me the adoption was faked, b/c it wasn't, it's adoption through the court of law, both Emma's and Regina's names were written in the case file and CLOSED by the court of law).


I've noticed that both you and ihr both like to bring up that the adoption was legal because it was done through a court of law. IMO, any adoption that Mr. Gold arranged shouldn't be held to the same standards as a normal adoption, especially when it comes to the Evil Queen adopting the Savior's child. Subconsciously or by means of the curse, there was a reason that Mr. Gold arranged for this particular child to be adopted by the Evil Queen.


I also think it's a little silly when people bring up the closed adoption. It's not like Emma and Regina can't go back to court for custody of Henry. Closed adoptions can be reopened.

Of course they can't go to court now because everyone is in Storybrooke, and there doesn't seem to be a court house. Honestly, people, what do you expect Emma to do? Regina is the Evil Queen. You're just going to leave your child alone with someone like that?

And just because Emma can't legally see Henry, doesn't mean he can't seek her out, which he has done repeatedly. Though his feelings may have changed recently, Emma and David and Snow didn't take Henry away, he left Regina because he didn't want to be with her because she'd gone all evil queen and was threatening to hurt people.

Again, I'm not saying that things haven't changed. Yes, Regina has taken steps. Yes, she loves Henry now. Yes, Henry should be a part of her life, now. But before she was cruel and manipulative and in Evil Queen mode. And people who act like that, and can be proven against, do have their children routinely and legally taken away from them.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby ihr » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:06 pm

Heidirs wrote:
shirona wrote:If being good means letting your kid skip the school, break the law (or actually ASKING HIM to break the law so you could enter someone's house and take a look at things while they take a shower), play in the dangerous place (yes, destroyed "castle" was a dangerous place) - yeah, Emma is amazing.
No, Regina was never manipulative toward Henry. She was never cold and horrible. Are we even watching the same show? Do you have kids? Look, she sent him to a psychiatrist b/c he started to act weird, different toward her. I'd do exactly the same. I'd be afraid there's something wrong with the kid. Wasn't she afraid in the Pilot when Henry was missing? Didn't she CRIED in 1x05 when Henry went to that old mine? It wasn't acting. He's her son, she loves him. Have you seen 2x12? Did you see the photo and palm-print? They were happy, but HE changed toward her. So yeah, it's really poor writing in this case and I can't understand how they can push this idea of bio being better than adopted. Also I can't understand why they make Emma act against the law (google what is closed adoption, read it and don't tell me the adoption was faked, b/c it wasn't, it's adoption through the court of law, both Emma's and Regina's names were written in the case file and CLOSED by the court of law). Evil Queen or not, Regina is Henry's mother and she'd never hurt him.

I think we need some topics about most important characters in the show too... Too much OT here.


Maybe we aren't watching the same show.

Regina sent Henry to therapy because she wanted his thoughts about her being the Evil Queen out of his head, thoughts that she knew were true. She sends him to shrink, making him think there's something wrong with him, when in fact there isn't. She demands Archie make Henry give up these thoughts about her, even though Archie has told her several times that telling Henry he's crazy would break him. Regina doesn't care, she just wants those thoughts gone.

Graham tells Regina to end the feud with her and Emma, or Henry is going to get hurt. And where does Regina's thoughts go? To hurting Henry. She deliberately sets up the scene where Emma says Henry's crazy so that he'll hear her. Because Regina wants him to be hurt. She frames Emma to have her arrested so she can tell Henry what a horrible person Emma is for the exact same reason. She deliberately acts to hurt Henry.

She tears down Henry's playground, knowing that its his favorite place. She makes up that it's unsafe as an excuse to tear it down because she knows he and Emma meet there.

In season one, Regina demonstrated again and again that she didn't care about Henry's feelings. She only cared that Henry cared about her. She was just as bad Cora. She didn't care what Henry wanted, just what she wanted for Henry.

While I believe that Regina has changed, and truly does love Henry now. It's very clear that she had a very different idea about love was in season one. She has grown of the course of the show and I would agree that she should be a part of Henry's life. But she was horrid to him at the beginning of season one.


If you watched the show, you would know that Henry was in therapy long before he knew about the book. Regina only learned about the book from Emma in the Pilot. So, that wasn't why she sent him to therapy. All of this in the pilot and the second ep.
but people who actually watch the show know this.

Regina only destroyed the playground after the storm, because it became a hazard. And she was right, it was dangerous. She knew about the place for months and didn't destroy it. You are wrong again.

Regina demanded Archie to put those ideas from Henry's head After the mine incident.The problem was that his behavior, not beliefs, were getting out of control. He was risking his life and others. Regina had every right to be angry and demand that the sourse of this behavior be removed. Every parent would react the same. I wouldn't be as nice as her about it.
Also, she never said to Henry or anyone else that he is crazy,not even once. Emma,on the other hand, did call him crazy.
None of Regina's actions stemmed from wanting to hurt Henry, but the fear of loosing him.

As for not caring about what Henry wanted - that's nonesense. She could have issued a restraining order against Emma, but didn't. She allowed Emma and Henry to see each other, because Henry wanted to.
Regina always loved Henry, that's not a new development.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby ihr » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:18 pm

Jennie wrote:It's called interpretation. Even the law is open for interpretation.

I can see both sides, but until Regina is able to cut her ties with Cora, I don't think Henry would be safe with her, emotionally if not physically.

Each side is going to argue the same points over and over again...what's the point, right? :shrug2:


Actually, no interpretation. the law is very clear about it. Emma had given up her parental rights after the birth and gave up her baby for closed adoption. There is no going back. Regardless of where the baby ended up. Emma is not his mother. Any contact with the child is a violation of the law. I doesn't matter if Henry sought her out. She should have break contact with him. She has no right to be in his life, period.

A for Cora's ties to Regina. It's really, really bad for Regina. I hope that she manages to break the hold her mother has on her. But that another issue.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Jennie » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:27 pm

ihr wrote:Actually, no interpretation. the law is very clear about it. Emma had given up her parental rights after the birth and gave up her baby for closed adoption. There is no going back. Regardless of where the baby ended up. Emma is not his mother. Any contact with the child is a violation of the law. I doesn't matter if Henry sought her out. She should have break contact with him. She has no right to be in his life, period.

A for Cora's ties to Regina. It's really, really bad for Regina. I hope that she manages to break the hold her mother has on her. But that another issue.


Why do you think we have judges? It's to interpret the law. If every case was a clear cut as you say, we wouldn't need them at all. If you want to get technical about everything in this way, Regina isn't even a true legal citizen of the US. She might have documents, but they are magical faked documents. That alone would nullify a legal adoption.

Regina sent Henry away because she was seeing her mother in her own actions. If she were thinking clearly at the moment, she would want to keep Henry as far away from Cora as possible (which is one reason she didn't want her in SB to begin with).

And btw, Regina ordered Archie to "get those delusions out of [her] son's head" before he got trapped in the mine. It was him going in to find proof that he wasn't delusional that put him in danger. See, even though you "watch the show" you can also forget minute details from time to time.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Heidirs » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:28 pm

ihr wrote:If you watched the show, you would know that Henry was in therapy long before he knew about the book. Regina only learned about the book from Emma in the Pilot. So, that wasn't why she sent him to therapy. All of this in the pilot and the second ep.
but people who actually watch the show know this.


That's true. He is in therapy before he gets the book. But he's put there because he starts noticing things, that children aren't growing up, that people don't remember how they met. Regina created this reality where time is froze, Henry grows up in it and starts questioning it, and she puts in therapy because of it.

ihr wrote:Regina only destroyed the playground after the storm, because it became a hazard. And she was right, it was dangerous. She knew about the place for months and didn't destroy it. You are wrong again.


She does destroy it after the storm, but we have no evidence that it was damaged. Regina sees Henry and Emma together, it storms, and then there's a construction crew taking the playground apart. That doesn't seem suspicious?

ihr wrote:Regina demanded Archie to put those ideas from Henry's head After the mine incident.The problem was that his behavior, not beliefs, were getting out of control. He was risking his life and others. Regina had every right to be angry and demand that the sourse of this behavior be removed. Every parent would react the same. I wouldn't be as nice as her about it.


Actually, that's incorrect. She asks Archie to change Henry's treatment before he goes into the mine. The town gathers at the mine's collapse, Regina picks up a piece of Snow's coffin and puts it in her pocket, Henry notices and tells Emma about, Regina gets upset and demands that Archie change Henry's treatment. It's got nothing to do with protecting Henry (he goes down into the mine afterward) and everything to with her trying to cover her tracks.

ihr wrote:Also, she never said to Henry or anyone else that he is crazy,not even once. Emma,on the other hand, did call him crazy.
None of Regina's actions stemmed from wanting to hurt Henry, but the fear of loosing him.


Of course she didn't call Henry crazy, she knows he's telling the truth. I can't agree that Regina's action never stemmed from wanting to hurt Henry when she deliberately put him in a position to be hurt by Emma's words, which she had believed she was stating in private out of concern for Henry's well being. And to be technical Emma never called Henry crazy, just that "it's crazy" in regard to his belief.

But for Graham to tell Regina that Henry could get hurt and for her response to be to make sure that actually happens, how is that not manipulative and cruel?
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Heidirs » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:32 pm

I stand corrected on the playground. I just went back and found the episode. While I disagree on WHY she tore it down, it was damaged beforehand.

Although Emma doesn't "let him play" on it. The storm damages it, Henry goes to check on the book. Emma suggests that she'll ask about getting the playground fixed because she knows how much it means to him. Regina sees the two of them together and accuses Emma of letting him play in dangerous places.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Wolven Voltage » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:36 pm

This is my issue, right here.

None of that has to do with IN THE NAME OF THE BROTHER.

RIGHT there! Its Regina drama that happened a season ago and debating whether or not she was right on doing what she did or not. Holy mother of Frankenstein this happens to EVERY SINGLE EPISODE DISCUSSION!

Did any of that at all up there occur or have to do with ITNOTB? No, it didn't. Paragraphs and pages of pages debating this ridiculous repetition! Take it to another thread!
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby ihr » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:40 pm

Heidirs wrote:
RebeccaMatthews wrote:
shirona wrote:Also I can't understand why they make Emma act against the law (google what is closed adoption, read it and don't tell me the adoption was faked, b/c it wasn't, it's adoption through the court of law, both Emma's and Regina's names were written in the case file and CLOSED by the court of law).


I've noticed that both you and ihr both like to bring up that the adoption was legal because it was done through a court of law. IMO, any adoption that Mr. Gold arranged shouldn't be held to the same standards as a normal adoption, especially when it comes to the Evil Queen adopting the Savior's child. Subconsciously or by means of the curse, there was a reason that Mr. Gold arranged for this particular child to be adopted by the Evil Queen.


I also think it's a little silly when people bring up the closed adoption. It's not like Emma and Regina can't go back to court for custody of Henry. Closed adoptions can be reopened.

Of course they can't go to court now because everyone is in Storybrooke, and there doesn't seem to be a court house. Honestly, people, what do you expect Emma to do? Regina is the Evil Queen. You're just going to leave your child alone with someone like that?

And just because Emma can't legally see Henry, doesn't mean he can't seek her out, which he has done repeatedly. Though his feelings may have changed recently, Emma and David and Snow didn't take Henry away, he left Regina because he didn't want to be with her because she'd gone all evil queen and was threatening to hurt people.

Again, I'm not saying that things haven't changed. Yes, Regina has taken steps. Yes, she loves Henry now. Yes, Henry should be a part of her life, now. But before she was cruel and manipulative and in Evil Queen mode. And people who act like that, and can be proven against, do have their children routinely and legally taken away from them.



No, closed adoptions can't be open after ten years.
No, Regina always loved him.
No, children are taken from home by the state and court order only if the parents can't take care of them or neglet them or physically or sexually abuse them. Not relevant to Henry's situation. He was well taken care of. she wasn't cruel, that's just not true.
Henry didn't leave Regina, She allowed him to stay with David (ep.2,s2) respecting his wishes. That doesn't mean that she is not his family.

Honestly, people, what do you expect Emma to do? Regina is the Evil Queen. You're just going to leave your child alone with someone like that?

Regina was the evil queen in FTL, she hasn't been that person in nearly 3 decades. that's a very long time. A whole life. she is not that person anymore.
Some People don't seem to get it.
Another thing is that some people don't seem to get is that Henry is not Emma's child, he is Regina's child. Regina who raised him all alone for ten years and he turned out just fine. why wouldn't he be with her alone? he had been alone with her his whole life.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Jennie » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:47 pm

Wolven Voltage wrote:This is my issue, right here.

None of that has to do with IN THE NAME OF THE BROTHER.

RIGHT there! Its Regina drama that happened a season ago and debating whether or not she was right on doing what she did or not. Holy mother of Frankenstein this happens to EVERY SINGLE EPISODE DISCUSSION!

Did any of that at all up there occur or have to do with ITNOTB? No, it didn't. Paragraphs and pages of pages debating this ridiculous repetition! Take it to another thread!


Start the thread and direct them to it.
:duel:
This all stems from the Regina-Cora parts of this episode which were completely unrelated to the rest of what was happening. It felt like filler to me...like it belonged in it's own episode, but they were meeting their Regina quota for the ep.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Wolven Voltage » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:49 pm

Jennie wrote:
Wolven Voltage wrote:This is my issue, right here.

None of that has to do with IN THE NAME OF THE BROTHER.

RIGHT there! Its Regina drama that happened a season ago and debating whether or not she was right on doing what she did or not. Holy mother of Frankenstein this happens to EVERY SINGLE EPISODE DISCUSSION!

Did any of that at all up there occur or have to do with ITNOTB? No, it didn't. Paragraphs and pages of pages debating this ridiculous repetition! Take it to another thread!


Start the thread and direct them to it.
:duel:
This all stems from the Regina-Cora parts of this episode which were completely unrelated to the rest of what was happening. It felt like filler to me...like it belonged in it's own episode, but they were meeting their Regina quota for the ep.


I already did. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1447

When I posted that I threw my phone and rushed to my computer to make them.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby mysticalflute » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:49 pm

Jennie wrote:
Wolven Voltage wrote:This is my issue, right here.

None of that has to do with IN THE NAME OF THE BROTHER.

RIGHT there! Its Regina drama that happened a season ago and debating whether or not she was right on doing what she did or not. Holy mother of Frankenstein this happens to EVERY SINGLE EPISODE DISCUSSION!

Did any of that at all up there occur or have to do with ITNOTB? No, it didn't. Paragraphs and pages of pages debating this ridiculous repetition! Take it to another thread!


Start the thread and direct them to it.
:duel:
This all stems from the Regina-Cora parts of this episode which were completely unrelated to the rest of what was happening. It felt like filler to me...like it belonged in it's own episode, but they were meeting their Regina quota for the ep.


Much as I disliked the episode, I have to agree. There was NO NEED for Regina in it. None.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Wolven Voltage » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:52 pm

^ I'm not even saying there was no need for her, all I'm saying is simply this:

Please, please don't twist everything and turn it into Regina-town.
All this Regina is drowning the character of the series.

There's 0 point in trying to rationalize my point because it'll just keep happening to every Episode discussion. :roll: I'll just post my feedback of the episodes on the Secondary thread if it regards the Secondary instead of the episode's discussion threads. Main if it regards Main. That's the only way for me personally that any sort of balance will happen. They all end up being one sided.

Watch this, more drama. Insert there V
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby ihr » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:54 pm

That's true. He is in therapy before he gets the book. But he's put there because he starts noticing things, that children aren't growing up, that people don't remember how they met. Regina created this reality where time is froze, Henry grows up in it and starts questioning it, and she puts in therapy because of it.

Actually, Adam and Eddie said that the first time that Henry noticed that something was wrong was when he read the book. Before that, he didn't notice at all.
You don't get more canon than that. Regina didn't send Henry to therapy because of that.
For the rest, we're going to agree to disagree. I won't say anything more because the poster above is right, It has nothing to do with In the Name of the Brother Discussion.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby ihr » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:02 pm

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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Jennie » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:05 pm

Wolven Voltage wrote:
Jennie wrote:
Wolven Voltage wrote:This is my issue, right here.

None of that has to do with IN THE NAME OF THE BROTHER.

RIGHT there! Its Regina drama that happened a season ago and debating whether or not she was right on doing what she did or not. Holy mother of Frankenstein this happens to EVERY SINGLE EPISODE DISCUSSION!

Did any of that at all up there occur or have to do with ITNOTB? No, it didn't. Paragraphs and pages of pages debating this ridiculous repetition! Take it to another thread!


Start the thread and direct them to it.
:duel:
This all stems from the Regina-Cora parts of this episode which were completely unrelated to the rest of what was happening. It felt like filler to me...like it belonged in it's own episode, but they were meeting their Regina quota for the ep.


I already did. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1447

When I posted that I threw my phone and rushed to my computer to make them.


Great! :D (Not the throwing your phone part ;) )

Perhaps now we can have discussions about the episodes without it devolving...

And that part about Regina's scenes being unnecessary, that was just my opinion because it seemed so unrelated to the rest of the plot with Greg and Whale. I wasn't even able to draw a parallel between the Regina/Cora relationship and the Franken!Daddy relationship. It just seemed disjointed, but that's purely my opinion as a viewer.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Wolven Voltage » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:06 pm

Perhaps the relationship as you said, was dealing with an evil parent and doing what you had to. I got that message from it.
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby Heidirs » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:12 pm

I started a new thread to continue the debate is anyone is interested.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1449&p=23158#p23157
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Re: [2x12] In the Name of the Brother Discussion

Postby mysticalflute » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:22 pm

You know what would've been nice to see? A short scene with Charming (perhaps while Frankenwhale is doing the surgery or while Red was out looking for him) lamenting over the fact that he never got to meet his twin.

After all, the episode was called "In the name of the BROTHER".
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