[2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Discuss and rate Once Upon a Time episodes

Did you like episode 2x13 Tiny?

Yes
33
55%
No
12
20%
Meh
15
25%
 
Total votes: 60
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CTrent29
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby CTrent29 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:44 pm

Yeah, but for those 28 years, he didn't have his memories, so he didn't miss his powers. How you can miss something you never knew you had?



He did . . . during Emma's first year in Storybooke.



I'm sorry, but I can't agree. I'm not saying that David hasn't made mistakes because he has (he's human), but he souldn't be beating himself up for the mistakes his brother made. That's why it was what he "needed to hear".



All Snow White had to tell him was that only James was to blame for his fate, not David. Instead, she dumped this garbage by claiming that David could never make the wrong decision or follow the wrong path because of who or what he was. I found that cringe worthy and immature.
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby Belleflower » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:48 pm

CTrent29 wrote:
Yeah, but for those 28 years, he didn't have his memories, so he didn't miss his powers. How you can miss something you never knew you had?



He did . . . during Emma's first year in Storybooke.



I'm sorry, but I can't agree. I'm not saying that David hasn't made mistakes because he has (he's human), but he souldn't be beating himself up for the mistakes his brother made. That's why it was what he "needed to hear".



All Snow White had to tell him was that only James was to blame for his fate, not David. Instead, she dumped this garbage by claiming that David could never make the wrong decision or follow the wrong path because of who or what he was. I found that cringe worthy and immature.

Why is that so cringe worthy? Snow was right. Charming has many flaws, but he hasn't made the multitude of mistakes that his brother has. Charming probably wouldn't have done the things James did. We've seen him in similar situations, and he's acted differently. I'm not exactly sure what your argument is.
Last edited by Belleflower on Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ihr
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby ihr » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:55 pm

Belleflower wrote:
CTrent29 wrote:
Yeah, but for those 28 years, he didn't have his memories, so he didn't miss his powers. How you can miss something you never knew you had?



He did . . . during Emma's first year in Storybooke.



I'm sorry, but I can't agree. I'm not saying that David hasn't made mistakes because he has (he's human), but he souldn't be beating himself up for the mistakes his brother made. That's why it was what he "needed to hear".



All Snow White had to tell him was that only James was to blame for his fate, not David. Instead, she dumped this garbage by claiming that David could never make the wrong decision or follow the wrong path because of who or what he was. I found that cringe worthy and immature.

Why is that so crigne worthy? Snow was right. Charming has many flaws, but he hasn't made the multitude of mistakes that his brother has. Charming probably wouldn't have done the things James did. We've seen him in similar situations, and he's acted differently. I'm not exact sure what your main argument is.


If it were him who grew up with King George, we have no way of knowing how he would have turned out.Maybe he would be the same as James. So, snow confidence is misplaced. David wasn't born "good" and James wasn't born "bad". It's how they were raised that made the difference. One grew up with poor, kind people the other grew up with a loving but an ambitious and harsh father.
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby Snow White » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:08 pm

I really like this episode. I especially like that Jac is women. And how James betrayed her. How they manipulate. And Gold struggling with the real world. Who he is frustrated about meeting his son. And Belle beeing normal. For a change. I don't like that she doesn't like books. And I haven't read anything from Jules Verne, but I shore will now. I also like that Henry is comming with. Actually I am loving everything:
-Giant
-James and Jack
-Big Giant War
-Belle
-Ruby
-Evil Regina's return( I am back to beeing Evil Regal)
-Greg and Belle- I made a ship for them even if i now that they will never sail-Grelle.
-Giant beeing a dwarf
-James and Snow moments
-There's someone out there for me. Someone I love very much, and I will not lose him-
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby Jennie » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:11 pm

ihr wrote:If it were him who grew up with King George, we have no way of knowing how he would have turned out.Maybe he would be the same as James. So, snow confidence is misplaced. David wasn't born "good" and James wasn't born "bad". It's how they were raised that made the difference. One grew up with poor, kind people the other grew up with a loving but an ambitious and harsh father.


That's exactly the point. He was worrying about something he had no control over and no way of proving either way. ‘What ifs’ and ‘maybes’ are not going to change anything. Snow's confidence in his character is exactly as it should be. He needed reassurance from his partner, not someone's personal belief that Nurture supersedes Nature. (There’s really no need to argue that here, since as I said before, there have been as many different findings on that as there have been studies.)
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby CTrent29 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:18 pm

Why is that so cringe worthy? Snow was right. Charming has many flaws, but he hasn't made the multitude of mistakes that his brother has.



So far. But he is as capable of it as brother James. So Snow White, Emma or just about any character. This is what I'm trying to point out. Instead of feeding David this garbage that he is incapable of being bad, all she had to say was that he was not responsible for James' crimes and mistakes. That's all.

Why is it that when it comes to pointing out that the average human being or fictional character is capable of being a monster, most people have to find some excuse to dismiss this idea? Why do human beings persist in believing that the majority of our species are basically good? I have yet to find any proof of this belief. Even among those who are not labeled as criminals.



David wasn't born "good" and James wasn't born "bad". It's how they were raised that made the difference. One grew up with poor, kind people the other grew up with a loving but an ambitious and harsh father.



I don't buy this excuse either. Despite his "good" upbringing, David is still capable of giving in to his more unpleasant impulses. There is no guarantee that he'll never become evil, due to his upbringing. I once read a book about two men - one had an unpleasant upbringing and the other had a stable, middle-class upbringing. The man with the unpleasant childhood ended up as a successful sports figure who proved to be a decent sort . . . so far. The man who had a stable upbringing turned out to be the Unibomber.

Anyone can become a monster, regardless of his or her past. All it takes is the right moment and the right emotional state in the right situation.
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby ihr » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:40 pm

It's the same old Nature v. nurture argument.
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. There are many variants influencing how one might turn out. Nothing is written in stone.
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby Suz_M* » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:53 pm

CTrent29 wrote:
David wasn't born "good" and James wasn't born "bad". It's how they were raised that made the difference. One grew up with poor, kind people the other grew up with a loving but an ambitious and harsh father.



I don't buy this excuse either. Despite his "good" upbringing, David is still capable of giving in to his more unpleasant impulses. There is no guarantee that he'll never become evil, due to his upbringing. I once read a book about two men - one had an unpleasant upbringing and the other had a stable, middle-class upbringing. The man with the unpleasant childhood ended up as a successful sports figure who proved to be a decent sort . . . so far. The man who had a stable upbringing turned out to be the Unibomber.

Anyone can become a monster, regardless of his or her past. All it takes is the right moment and the right emotional state in the right situation.


Agreed to a certain point. I've always lived with the understanding that "it is our choices, far more than our abilities that make us who we truly are." (Dumbledore is just so freaking smart) I agree that David could do something ruthless or idiotic at some point, just as James could have made the choice to do the right thing at any moment. Case in point: leaving Jack to die, writhing in agony. You could see on his face that he was making that conscious decision. But I also think that after you make choices a certain way for a long time, it's harder to choose the road less travelled. What I mean is that David decided a long time ago to try to do the ethically sound thing in most situations, and has made decisions accordingly. James decided to put his own needs above everyone else's in his life, and has made his decisions accordingly. Because he's used to choosing the noble thing, it would take an extraordinary event to make David choose to sacrifice something innocent for his own needs. The same goes for James in the reverse. Humans are creatures of habit, and those habits are hard to break. But there's always a choice.

I also really take issue with the idea that two blood-related people raised in the same environment behave similarly. My sister and I aren't twins, but we're only 16 months apart, so we were raised pretty much as twins. And we are pretty much as different as two people can be; I'm younger, but I've got 6 inches and about 50 pounds on her (she's 4'10 and about 90 pounds soaking wet) We have different hair color, eye color, shoe size, facial structure. She's the extroverted party-girl to my introverted geek. We pursued degrees in completely different areas, believe radically different things, and have really different systems and understandings of values. Pretty much the only thing we have in common is our speech pattern and our love of books. Blood and environmental factors matter, yes, but at a certain point, it's just about who you are.
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby Heidirs » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:12 pm

Switching topic here, when did Cora and Hook abduct Anton? Was it after stealing Aurora's heart and before Hook showed the bean to Emma (when they were trapped in Rumple's cell)? That seems like a short time frame for Hook and Cora to make their way up the bean stalk and back, but that also seems like the most logical point.
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby ihr » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:21 pm

Heidirs wrote:Switching topic here, when did Cora and Hook abduct Anton? Was it after stealing Aurora's heart and before Hook showed the bean to Emma (when they were trapped in Rumple's cell)? That seems like a short time frame for Hook and Cora to make their way up the bean stalk and back, but that also seems like the most logical point.


My guess, after they failed to stop Emma and Snow, they paid a visit to the giant, and came with him to SB.
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby Jennie » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:26 pm

CTrent29 wrote:So far. But he is as capable of it as brother James. So Snow White, Emma or just about any character. This is what I'm trying to point out. Instead of feeding David this garbage that he is incapable of being bad, all she had to say was that he was not responsible for James' crimes and mistakes. That's all.


If you want to look at it that way, anyone is "capable" of anything. It's dismissing the character they've become through the course of their lives. We don't really know what we're capable of until we're faced with it.

Snow didn't say David was incapable of "being bad". That's pretty simplistic. Intellectually, I'm sure David knew he wasn't responsible for his brother's actions. But his heart needed someone to reassure him that he wasn't like James. I simply can't take issue with a wife reassuring her husband in this way. I would have said exactly the same thing. :shrug2:
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby melediv » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:07 pm

I liked this epsidoe. Very action packed. It felt like a 2 hour movie.
What I liked:
- Ruby's fur outfit. It was funny, but also silly. I was like ''Seriously?"
- Jaclyn's cleavage.

What I didn't like:
-That Jack was a girl. It's so stupid
-Snow's hesitation about going back
-This Greg guy. Who the F*** is he? I think he's like this season's August(a weird character gets introduced just to make the season ''interesting'') and it just feels me with frustrations. Generally, the unaswered questions from TV Series fill my with frustrations
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby *The Enchanted Rose* » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:24 pm

My favorite moments were:

-Mr. Gold's scenes in the airport

-Emma reassuring Mr. Gold that she'd help his son in the airplane.

-Emma helping Mr. Gold through the metal detector.

-Henry delivering 20 Questions to Mr. Gold.

-Belle's freak out in the hospital. Poor thing.

-Charming roughing up Hook.

-Regina's conversation deal Hook.

-Regina unleashing the giant through Storybrooke.

-Mr. Gold going apeshit in the bathroom stall. Good lord that scene was intense.

My least favorite moments:

-Prince James leaving Jack behind to die.

-James and Jack tricking Anton. That was cold.

-The creepy nurse drugging Belle to keep her silent. I hate the way everyone's treating Belle. Mr. Gold's gonna pissed.

-Most of the flashback scenes involving the giants.
☠The Dark One: The Beast, a crocodile, the most powerful man in the world, master manipulater, trickster in disguise, desperate soul, broken-hearted father, admirer of a great beauty and a fan of true love ☠
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby Sandy » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:17 pm

What I liked
- Seeing Mr. Gold out of his element in the real world. For about 300 years he's been the all powerful guy. Even without his magic in Storybrooke before the curse broke he was still the man everyone feared but now not only does he not have his magic but he's isn't the big guy on top. He's like everyone else and he can't do whatever he wants without facing real world consequences. I liked seeing his fears, his anger, his buliding anxiety. Those scenes were great character moments for him.
- Jack as a villain. We already pretty much knew from Tallahasee that Jack most like wasn't a hero but it was nice to get a confirmation here. I could see she had cunning but I wish she would have been the one to betray James instead of the otherway around. I got the impression that she was using James but alas that didn't seem to be the case unless he got the upper hand before she was able to betray him. We didn't really get much insight on Jack sad to say, but since we got the little mention of her fighting the Jabberwock we might see her in a Wonderland flash back in a future episode.
- Anton gaining a family again with the dwarves :). I thought that was a sweet moment especially after losing everyone he knew and being alone for so long.
- Greg telling Belle that he believed her. I know it can't be a good thing later on that he knows about magic but I was upset that everyone was making Belle feel crazy and sedating her to keep her quiet. That was completely wrong, they were lying to her and basically punishing her for not believing their lies so I am happy she got that confirmation that she wasn't crazy. The girl was locked in an asylum for 28+ years, she doesn't need people making her feel crazy.

What I didn't like
- The Charmings handling of Hook. I've already gave my piece on this so I won't elaborate here except to say plot hole. Big plot hole.
- Belle's treatment in the hospital and Ruby just standing there and allowing it to happen. I was dissappointed in the Ruby/Belle friendship in Child of the Moon and I've lost all hope for it here. Ruby knew Belle had been sedated before and she knew she didn't want to be sedated anymore. Ruby also lied to her after Belle tried to trust her word that Ruby was her friend without any proof at all, but after Belle gets understandably upset Ruby just stands there and lets a nurse sedate Belle again to keep her quiet. I just...I thought Ruby was going to impress me here and she just dissappointed me. Being honest with Belle would not have required Ruby giving the whole explanation of the Enchanted Forest and them being fairytale characters. Belle just wanted to know how it was possible for Gold to do magic. All Ruby had to say was that he was a magician or wizard or whatever and slowly take things from there.
- Not finding out if Belle has Storbrooke identity. Right now it's looking like she doesn't because she didn't tell Ruby to call her by it instead of Belle. I hope this is the case and the writers aren't going to make it be some anticlimatic big reveal like they did with David unless her Storybrooke name is Alice hehe (I have a plot bunny brewing in my head for this).
- Snow's comment to Regina about Emma not having to run anything by her. Ok I totally don't blame Snow for not caring about Regina's feelings, Snow doesn't owe her anything but it probably wasn't the smartest thing to say. It was like poking a sleeping bear.
- The Charmings have a death threat hanging over their heads but it seems they are being pretty lax with Belle's protection. I know Ruby went to visit her (maybe as a guard) but if Greg could just waltz into her room in the middle of the night then I don't think she's being watched all that carefully). I hope they don't think keeping her drugged up and in the hospital surrounded by hospital staff is going to serve as adequate protection especially with Hook on the loose. Because keeping her weak and helpless and in the dark is probably the worst way they could ensure no harm comes to her. Gold is going to be most displeased.
- Charming's attitude about being seperated from Emma. I thought considering how he knows her the least he would want to get to know her better and not be seperated from her but it seemed like he really didn't care. Not saying that he doesn't care about her, he would be devastated if any harm came to her but he doesn't really care about getting to know her or about being in her life. This is actually the same attitude I have towards my dad but that's because of certain things my dad has done in the past (basically moving on and having other families) but I found it odd for Charming to have this attitude since he wasn't seperated from Emma by his or her choice. At least not willingly on his part.
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby LibraLady » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:14 am

I loved this episode! For me it was all about Gold returning to the Rumple he was before he became the Dark One but with experience under his belt. I believe, if not for Emma's help and being so very (relatively) close to his long-sought goal, he'd have bolted for the nearest exit. But he made it all the way to the waiting area! And bolted for the nearest piece of quiet.

This is the episode I've been waiting for all season - for the story to get back to what its supposed to be about: fairytale land characters in the modern world dealing with their uncursed status. Red did it in one episode, thankfully, so it left more room for the complexity that is Gold. For me, as a viewer, this episode happened just in time. I was thiiis close to skipping the rest of the season until I needed something to view during the summertime hiatus. The Gold-side storyline (*and* Robert's portrayal!) brought the show back face front. I have great hope for the last leg of the season now.

What I really, really, really don't like about this episode (and the season so far): Hook. This show has a good bit of cheese to it, and I do like me some cheese, but I roll my eyes at almost every line that comes out of Hook's mouth. Ugh. Whether its FTL or SB, this character is what made me look forward to the season being over. I am so very ready for the writers to *try* something else but I believe it'll take a new season for them to get a decent stab at it. I don't care if he's whacked, smacked, or shoved to the back. As long as he's gagged.
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby Heidirs » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:03 am

LibraLady wrote:What I really, really, really don't like about this episode (and the season so far): Hook. This show has a good bit of cheese to it, and I do like me some cheese, but I roll my eyes at almost every line that comes out of Hook's mouth. Ugh. Whether its FTL or SB, this character is what made me look forward to the season being over. I am so very ready for the writers to *try* something else but I believe it'll take a new season for them to get a decent stab at it. I don't care if he's whacked, smacked, or shoved to the back. As long as he's gagged.


Really starting to question how Hook and Milah's relationship worked with him hitting on everything with two legs.

Although, I suppose he could have just been acting that way toward Snow to annoy the crap out of the Charming. I can forgive the over the top cheesiness in that case. :lol:
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby Heidirs » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:29 am

Also, This:

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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby Mirabai » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:01 am

I liked that we had a chance to see Abraham Benrubi. I just love him.

Thanks for asking about how Cora captured Anton. It bugged me the whole episode. I literally spent the whole hour waiting for the revealing flashback. So annoyed by that.
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby LibraLady » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:20 am

Heidirs wrote:Really starting to question how Hook and Milah's relationship worked with him hitting on everything with two legs.

Although, I suppose he could have just been acting that way toward Snow to annoy the crap out of the Charming. I can forgive the over the top cheesiness in that case. :lol:


I don't believe he was ever in love with Milah, certainly not the 'true love' of FTL. He loved that he stole her - from the pre Dark One Rumpel, the crippled coward of Milah's village. What a weasel. Yet its the most piratical example we have to date.

His blood feud with Gold stems from the loss of his hand, nothing more. Nothing more because he is a two-dimensional character the writers have refused to develop, relying instead on built-in expectations and lame dialogue. By now he should at least be dealing with his own cowardice and, one might hope, wrestling with the knowledge that someone (anyone, even Snow!) is a better man than he is. Instead he's still bullying the least threatening person in the room and running off to mama.

He wasn't acting that way to annoy David. It was to annoy Snow. He's skert of David.
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Re: [2x13] Tiny Episode Discussion

Postby CTrent29 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:02 am

I don't believe he was ever in love with Milah, certainly not the 'true love' of FTL. He loved that he stole her - from the pre Dark One Rumpel, the crippled coward of Milah's village. What a weasel. Yet its the most piratical example we have to date.



I'm sorry but I disagree. In fact, I find this argument implausible and a little desperate. Why is it so important to put down Hook and Milah's love for each other? Because they hurt little ole Rumpie's feelings? She did not love Rumpelstiltskin. Milah loved Hook. Hook loved Milah. She loved Hook so much that she was willing to exchange the magic bean with Rumpel for Hook's life. He loved Milah so much that he spent 300 years (or so) harboring revenge against Rumpel for Milah's murder. He couldn't even destroy Bae's scarf - which would have ruined Rumpel's plans - because it had been made by Milah.

I can't convince anyone that Milah and Hook genuinely loved each other. But I do find these "Hook and Milah didn't really love each other" arguments rather illusional. Do people love Rumpel so much that they want to believe that Hook and Milah's relationship was lust and nothing else . . . to justify Rumpel's murder of her? Is that it? :shrug2:

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