[3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Discuss and rate Once Upon a Time episodes

Did you like [3x22] There's No Place Like Home?

Yes
43
78%
No
5
9%
Meh
7
13%
 
Total votes: 55
RC_addicted
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby RC_addicted » Tue May 13, 2014 5:53 pm

Another dislike that is actually consequence of the previous one: The unconvincing/half cooked lovers resulting from the pressure to pair the women.

Regina and Robin: Is that anything more out of element that Robin Hood enjoying wine and cheese in a wealthy and sophisticated living room like Regina's? No. If only there could have been more screen time between Robin Hood and the Evil Queen where the love-hate relationship got more time ... that would make the present link more convincing. It is established though: by her own words, that she needs a man love to be happy ("I didn't think I could have this again" or something like that she says to Robin). So be it. Regina's character does seem to have one need: motherhood. So maybe this also has to do with the fact that she practically 'lost' Henry to Emma ( what I also dislike). Are the writers somehow trying to make up a kid for other? Weird. :roll:

Emma and Hook (or Emma and any man): no chemistry. You can be 'devilish handsome' (for whoever is into extra hairy chests and eyeliner) or have a permanent expression of boredom like Neal, the pairings are not convincing. Maybe that's why they keep trying it? First the Sheriff, then Bae and now Hook. The latest being the most polarizing choice and Jerry Springer-ish. Henry's potential step daddy is also the former lover of his gramma? creepyyieee. :?
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby fiend » Tue May 13, 2014 6:26 pm

Jennie wrote:First of all, I am a fan of Regina and really felt for her when Robin and Marion reunited in the diner.

However, Emma made the right choice in saving Marion and bringing her back to SB. It was the best option in a horrible situation. She is not the kind of person who can leave someone to die just so that it doesn't affect her future. Taking Marion back with them solved all the problems at hand. Marion didn't have to die and she still didn't affect the next 30 years and change the future. The fact that she turned out to be Robin's presumed dead wife is not Emma's fault. If Marion had been anyone else, there would have been no repercussions that we know of. Roland is still a young boy and deserves the chance to grow up with his mother.

It sucks for Regina, but we've seen similar story lines in TV and movies before. A presumed dead loved one returns after his/her significant other has moved on with someone else. Choices have to be made.


Regarding Killian's comments about Emma defeating villains:
The villains this year were defeated by one person in the end, but there was a team effort leading up to the final showdowns. Emma was the leader in both instances because she doesn't ignore the non-magical aspect of things. For example, she was the one who suggested searching Regina's office for non-magical clues which is what eventually led them to the Zelena's hideout and finding Rumple. He didn't say she defeated them on her own, but she did have an integral part in the success of both defeats.



Hook did not make that distinction at all. He is clearly giving Emma, who is in a fragile state in that scene, false acknowledgement. This man is constantly feeding her lies. Like stretching the truth about the memory potion. Almost kidnapping her son without her consent. Not telling her about the cursed lips even though she is more than capable to take care of herself. Always chasing her when she keeps saying no or does not have interest. Emma needs to be with someone that brings the best out of her, and Hook ain't it. Snow, Henry, and Regina seem to always to be able to call her out on things. Not just stroke say things to win cool points with her. He has only been shown doing things to benefit himself in regards to Emma.
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby ihr » Tue May 13, 2014 7:05 pm

fiend wrote:
Jennie wrote:First of all, I am a fan of Regina and really felt for her when Robin and Marion reunited in the diner.

However, Emma made the right choice in saving Marion and bringing her back to SB. It was the best option in a horrible situation. She is not the kind of person who can leave someone to die just so that it doesn't affect her future. Taking Marion back with them solved all the problems at hand. Marion didn't have to die and she still didn't affect the next 30 years and change the future. The fact that she turned out to be Robin's presumed dead wife is not Emma's fault. If Marion had been anyone else, there would have been no repercussions that we know of. Roland is still a young boy and deserves the chance to grow up with his mother.

It sucks for Regina, but we've seen similar story lines in TV and movies before. A presumed dead loved one returns after his/her significant other has moved on with someone else. Choices have to be made.


Regarding Killian's comments about Emma defeating villains:
The villains this year were defeated by one person in the end, but there was a team effort leading up to the final showdowns. Emma was the leader in both instances because she doesn't ignore the non-magical aspect of things. For example, she was the one who suggested searching Regina's office for non-magical clues which is what eventually led them to the Zelena's hideout and finding Rumple. He didn't say she defeated them on her own, but she did have an integral part in the success of both defeats.



Hook did not make that distinction at all. He is clearly giving Emma, who is in a fragile state in that scene, false acknowledgement. This man is constantly feeding her lies. Like stretching the truth about the memory potion. Almost kidnapping her son without her consent. Not telling her about the cursed lips even though she is more than capable to take care of herself. Always chasing her when she keeps saying no or does not have interest. Emma needs to be with someone that brings the best out of her, and Hook ain't it. Snow, Henry, and Regina seem to always to be able to call her out on things. Not just stroke say things to win cool points with her. He has only been shown doing things to benefit himself in regards to Emma.


x2
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby fiend » Tue May 13, 2014 7:18 pm

And lets be honest people, Hook giving up his ship is not that impression. Yes, he is attached to it, but that is replaceable. What about Neal sacrificing his very life for Henry and Emma? What about Regina giving Emma "good memories" and giving up Henry, her son, who really believes that she will never see him again for the greater good? In light of that, I just can't imagine anybody thinking Hook giving up his ship is such a grand gesture, its rather cheap. I still don't believe his story fully since we never in the show saw what he did with it. He has been known to say things to get Emma to believe him, whether its true or not.
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby Jennie » Tue May 13, 2014 8:22 pm

I'm going to try to reply to that all in one post. Here goes.

Killian/Hook has "called Emma out" on several occasions. He has been brutally honest with her when he needed to be (recall the having your heart broken means it still works bit that so many complained about earlier in the season). He was pointing out her part in defeating evil without making the distinction of "well so-and-so did the final bit but you helped". When you're trying to remind someone what they've done well, you don't have to mention what they didn't do. It's just not necessary when it's just the two of you present in the conversation. If Regina had been present, he probably would have said something like "You and Regina, you defeated the WW" or whatever.

How did he stretch the truth about the memory potion? He told them it was sent by bird with a note...that was honesty. He can't help that the only person he thought of was Snow, just as we the audience did at the time.

He took Henry (who was about to runaway on his own) to hide him from Zelena. This was meant to parallel what Emma did at the end of season 1. All she was thinking about was getting him away from the evil Regina and all Killian was thinking about was getting Henry away from the wicked Zelena. They were both wrong and they both had to deal with the fall out. (Emma with Snow and Killian with Emma)

I don't understand why everyone keeps "forgetting" that Zelena threatened not only Emma's life, but everyone else's if Killian told them about the curse. Should he have told her, maybe so, but he was afraid. Zelena was more powerful than Regina and had control of the Dark One. He had every right to be afraid of what she would do if he told Emma the truth.

Killian has been persistent with Emma. However, Emma has far from told him no. She has said, not now, in Neverland. But then she followed that up with "Good" in the 3A finale. Emma doesn't believe in false hope, so that was a huge step for her. That was her saying, I like that you think about me. She has shown over and over again that she likes to have him by her side. They had the one bad spot in "Kansas" because of the whole cursed lips thing, but when she realized she might lose him, she whispered "come back to me". That is NOT something you say over someone you don't have an interest in.

Hook didn't just give up his ship. He gave up his HOME. He gave up the ship that he sailed with his brother and his first love. Imagine you have a house. You lived with your brother in this house and he died in your arms in this house. Then you found love and lost her too. That house is your home and your history with these people. But you are willing to trade that house for a magic bean to get back to a woman who has no memory of you in the hopes of returning her to her family. That would be a huge sacrifice and that is what Killian did. The Jolly Roger is not just his ship, it was his home. But it wasn't nearly as important to him as Emma Swan. And let's not forget how upset he was when he realized Emma had lost her magic to save him. He would have rather her let him die than take her magic.
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby maaike.b » Tue May 13, 2014 9:04 pm

Jennie wrote:I'm going to try to reply to that all in one post. Here goes.

Killian/Hook has "called Emma out" on several occasions. He has been brutally honest with her when he needed to be (recall the having your heart broken means it still works bit that so many complained about earlier in the season). He was pointing out her part in defeating evil without making the distinctio
n of "well so-and-so did the final bit but you helped". When you're trying to remind someone what they've done well, you don't have to mention what they didn't do. It's just not necessary when it's just the two of you present in the conversation. If Regina had been present, he probably would have said something like "You and Regina, you defeated the WW" or whatever.

How did he stretch the truth about the memory potion? He told them it was sent by bird with a note...that was honesty. He can't help that the only person he thought of was Snow, just as we the audience did at the time.

He took Henry (who was about to runaway on his own) to hide him from Zelena. This was meant to parallel what Emma did at the end of season 1. All she was thinking about was getting him away from the evil Regina and all Killian was thinking about was getting Henry away from the wicked Zelena. They were both wrong and they both had to deal with the fall out. (Emma with Snow and Killian with Emma)

I don't understand why everyone keeps "forgetting" that Zelena threatened not only Emma's life, but everyone else's if Killian told them about the curse. Should he have told her, maybe so, but he was afraid. Zelena was more powerful than Regina and had control of the Dark One. He had every right to be afraid of what she would do if he told Emma the truth.

Killian has been persistent with Emma. However, Emma has far from told him no. She has said, not now, in Neverland. But then she followed that up with "Good" in the 3A finale. Emma doesn't believe in false hope, so that was a huge step for her. That was her saying, I like that you think about me. She has shown over and over again that she likes to have him by her side. They had the one bad spot in "Kansas" because of the whole cursed lips thing, but when she realized she might lose him, she whispered "come back to me". That is NOT something you say over someone you don't have an interest in.

Hook didn't just give up his ship. He gave up his HOME. He gave up the ship that he sailed with his brother and his first love. Imagine you have a house. You lived with your brother in this house and he died in your arms in this house. Then you found love and lost her too. That house is your home and your history with these people. But you are willing to trade that house for a magic bean to get back to a woman who has no memory of you in the hopes of returning her to her family. That would be a huge sacrifice and that is what Killian did. The Jolly Roger is not just his ship, it was his home. But it wasn't nearly as important to him as Emma Swan. And let's not forget how upset he was when he realized Emma had lost her magic to save him. He would have rather her let him die than take her magic.


Well, even though I'm not a Hook fan, and probably never will be, I totally have to agree with you, well said.
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby DoneWithOUAT » Tue May 13, 2014 9:31 pm

Hated everything about it.
But most of all I hated the Disney crap they will introduce next year. Frozen Elsa!
Rumpel's wedding. Belle's awful outfit!
I was really grossed out by Emma falling for Hook.
God !Did they really have to bring back Lady Mariane? Now Regina has a nouveau foe! Emma just ruined her new chance at love...
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby Danielsgrl03 » Tue May 13, 2014 9:36 pm

Operation cobra wrote:
Anyone else wondering how the snow queen will be related to Henry?



I was wondering if she's Snow's grandmother. I mean "frozen/ice queen"..."Snow" White...it kind of fits. The time frame would work because she had been locked up in Rumple's vault. It would be interesting.
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby DoneWithOUAT » Tue May 13, 2014 9:41 pm

fiend wrote:
Jennie wrote:First of all, I am a fan of Regina and really felt for her when Robin and Marion reunited in the diner.

However, Emma made the right choice in saving Marion and bringing her back to SB. It was the best option in a horrible situation. She is not the kind of person who can leave someone to die just so that it doesn't affect her future. Taking Marion back with them solved all the problems at hand. Marion didn't have to die and she still didn't affect the next 30 years and change the future. The fact that she turned out to be Robin's presumed dead wife is not Emma's fault. If Marion had been anyone else, there would have been no repercussions that we know of. Roland is still a young boy and deserves the chance to grow up with his mother.

It sucks for Regina, but we've seen similar story lines in TV and movies before. A presumed dead loved one returns after his/her significant other has moved on with someone else. Choices have to be made.


Regarding Killian's comments about Emma defeating villains:
The villains this year were defeated by one person in the end, but there was a team effort leading up to the final showdowns. Emma was the leader in both instances because she doesn't ignore the non-magical aspect of things. For example, she was the one who suggested searching Regina's office for non-magical clues which is what eventually led them to the Zelena's hideout and finding Rumple. He didn't say she defeated them on her own, but she did have an integral part in the success of both defeats.



Hook did not make that distinction at all. He is clearly giving Emma, who is in a fragile state in that scene, false acknowledgement. This man is constantly feeding her lies. Like stretching the truth about the memory potion. Almost kidnapping her son without her consent. Not telling her about the cursed lips even though she is more than capable to take care of herself. Always chasing her when she keeps saying no or does not have interest. Emma needs to be with someone that brings the best out of her, and Hook ain't it. Snow, Henry, and Regina seem to always to be able to call her out on things. Not just stroke say things to win cool points with her. He has only been shown doing things to benefit himself in regards to Emma.


Fiend Thank you for telling like it is! I agree 100%
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby tv_addict » Tue May 13, 2014 10:43 pm

RC_addicted wrote:While watching the season finale I have noticed some dislikes for this show. I won't post them all at once but I was wondering if anybody else gets put off for the same things.

A dislike: That singlehood is just not an option for a main character;
Granted, this is not only an OUAT flaw but Emma and Regina are downright cliché on this.
Their last pairings more or less hammers the same combination of the same conventional message:

- That singlehood and happiness equation is unnatural or unexpected. You need to find 'someone to wake up with in love' in order to feel fulfilled or happy.
- 'Finding or losing happiness' is linked to the character (mostly if woman) finding or losing a boyfriend/partner. In summary, by the end of the day, if you don't have your version of Prince Charming, something is missing.

Emma, even more than Regina (that came from the 'Fairy Tale' world where True Love is a must for everybody), seemed to have been a perfect opportunity for the bold statement that a heroin doesn't need to 'find a man to love' to be happy with her life. Being single and unattached seemed to fit her nicely. If she got like this because it's her natural personality or her upbringing, the point that could have been made is that she is single and happy.


I don't see the situation like that. It's not like they were looking for boyfriends/partners. Regina, even more than Emma who had that whatever that was with Hook, was fine with just having the love of her son, that was all she needed to be happy. But you can't blame her for being happy when she happened do stumble on a guy that wasn't just really hot :D but who cared for her and accepted her for who she was. That being said, I also don't think you can blame her for being sad when she lost that. It doesn't make her weak, just human. And I think there are things on the show that are way more sexist than that.
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby Mr. Silver » Tue May 13, 2014 11:57 pm

Not read back on the thread, and only just got the time today to actually watch both episodes in one go (21 & 22).

Did anyone else think the woman from the jail was going to turn out to be Amara from the Wonderland series somehow? No idea how that would have worked but you know *shrug* Oh and the 'mysterious female in blue' at the end made me think of the Red queen, only you know.... not red :P
The only other Maid Marian I really have seen a lot of is the one from a UK series in the 90's called 'Maid Marian and her Merry Men', I got the DVD boxset of that just because it is brilliant.

So onwards to series 4! I hope the new mystery female is a witch of some kind, just cause you know, more awesome hot witch magic fights.
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby TheNewCora » Wed May 14, 2014 3:50 am

RC_addicted wrote:While watching the season finale I have noticed some dislikes for this show. I won't post them all at once but I was wondering if anybody else gets put off for the same things.

A dislike: That singlehood is just not an option for a main character;
Granted, this is not only an OUAT flaw but Emma and Regina are downright cliché on this.
Their last pairings more or less hammers the same combination of the same conventional message:

- That singlehood and happiness equation is unnatural or unexpected. You need to find 'someone to wake up with in love' in order to feel fulfilled or happy.
- 'Finding or losing happiness' is linked to the character (mostly if woman) finding or losing a boyfriend/partner. In summary, by the end of the day, if you don't have your version of Prince Charming, something is missing.

Emma, even more than Regina (that came from the 'Fairy Tale' world where True Love is a must for everybody), seemed to have been a perfect opportunity for the bold statement that a heroin doesn't need to 'find a man to love' to be happy with her life. Being single and unattached seemed to fit her nicely. If she got like this because it's her natural personality or her upbringing, the point that could have been made is that she is single and happy.


I really agree with this, because I so agree with it in real life. I don't understand why everyone needs to find that other person to be happy, fulfilled or content. Its utter nonsense. Nobody may agree with me but I really hope Regina goes back to her Evil Queen ways because, like someone else has already said, Rumple gets away with a lot more (not just the killing of Zelena), and in my opinion that has to do with our society's notions on gender roles and such subjects. So, I see no reason why Regina shouldn't embrace her "dark side," and I think it would make for far better television.
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby eleruen » Wed May 14, 2014 4:41 am

A year ago, the writers said that Outlaw Queen would end tragically and so it did. Sigh. I agree that Regina needs to find happiness on her own, but I would still like to see a believable romantic relationship with someone down the line.
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby Her Mayorness » Wed May 14, 2014 11:13 am

I wasn't able to write anything for days. I'd been mourning Outlaw Queen, but now I've recovered.

Excellent two episodes. Loved everything about it, except of course Emma's and RUMPLE's stupidity about Marion. Didn't anyone warn you Emma that changing past events could have disastrous consequences in the future>? Marty McFly, helloooo? Ok, she is even excused.
But HOW on earth did Rumple allow them to carry a whole new person into the future?? That's what I am mostly upset about. Rumple goes through all the trouble to arrange for them to correct the interrupted event and then allows them baggage?? Geeeeeee.

I used to be a big fan of BTTF, watched all parts, so I was more than thrilled when I found out what the finale would be about.

Loved the Evil Queen... She's outdone her evil self by actually and mercilessly torching Snow alive. That was too dark, even for my taste..

Rumbelle wedding was so cute and loved the speeches of course, and I loved to see her in her neat little costume with a neat little cap. They made a lovely picture.

It was great to see Neal back again, but I am rooting for Captain Swan. I've forgiven him the dried bean incident because he has developed so much. It was hilarious to see the old Hook womanizer again and I loved Jen in that whole tavern scene. Haha, the drink! Hook jealous of himself and beating himself haha haha.

Let me just take a moment to highlight two funniest scenes:

Abigail to James "Eventually you'll stop noticing....." about the castle of gold haha, the resignation..
Rumple after having taken the forget potion: "What the hell am I doing here". :lol:
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby Her Mayorness » Wed May 14, 2014 11:22 am

How could I even forget Outlaw Queen... Im not ok.

So Marion is alive. I can't deny I hated the writers at that point like never in my life.
How could they destroy such an awesome plot for Regina, but I'd already said some place Marion might turn out to be alive but kept prisoner by Zelena. I was right about the "alive" part. At the point that I finished watching, I thought Outlaw Queen is officially over. However -

Fortunately, now that we know A&E said that they are going to tackle Robin's feelings he'd developed for Regina or something like that, so most importantly, Sean Maguire is back for S4. Whatever happens next, I'll be happy to watch it. Also hoping that the Universe will correct Marion's destiny and she dies.. well my OTP is Outlaw Queen, so... :P
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby Jennie » Wed May 14, 2014 12:40 pm

maaike.b wrote:Well, even though I'm not a Hook fan, and probably never will be, I totally have to agree with you, well said.


Thanks. I wasn't a fan at first either. Much like Killian when he punched Hook, I wasn't a fan of the "womanizing pirate". But he has grown so much this season, much like Regina, and I like the change in him. The punch was played for laughs, but it was also about him being disgusted by his former self and seeing that that version of him is not good enough for Emma Swan.
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby Hedgewitch » Wed May 14, 2014 2:31 pm

I have to say I didn't like Rumple & Belles wedding. First of all it's like they had to sneak off to the woods,hardly anyone attended. Then what was up with Belles outfit? If you're going to be in the forest you don't wear spikes & that weird little hat :( She should have worn soft little slippers & flowers in her hair. :rose:
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby RC_addicted » Wed May 14, 2014 2:50 pm

tv_addict wrote:
RC_addicted wrote:While watching the season finale I have noticed some dislikes for this show. I won't post them all at once but I was wondering if anybody else gets put off for the same things.

A dislike: That singlehood is just not an option for a main character;
Granted, this is not only an OUAT flaw but Emma and Regina are downright cliché on this.
Their last pairings more or less hammers the same combination of the same conventional message:

- That singlehood and happiness equation is unnatural or unexpected. You need to find 'someone to wake up with in love' in order to feel fulfilled or happy.
- 'Finding or losing happiness' is linked to the character (mostly if woman) finding or losing a boyfriend/partner. In summary, by the end of the day, if you don't have your version of Prince Charming, something is missing.

Emma, even more than Regina (that came from the 'Fairy Tale' world where True Love is a must for everybody), seemed to have been a perfect opportunity for the bold statement that a heroin doesn't need to 'find a man to love' to be happy with her life. Being single and unattached seemed to fit her nicely. If she got like this because it's her natural personality or her upbringing, the point that could have been made is that she is single and happy.


I don't see the situation like that. It's not like they were looking for boyfriends/partners. Regina, even more than Emma who had that whatever that was with Hook, was fine with just having the love of her son, that was all she needed to be happy. But you can't blame her for being happy when she happened do stumble on a guy that wasn't just really hot :D but who cared for her and accepted her for who she was. That being said, I also don't think you can blame her for being sad when she lost that. It doesn't make her weak, just human. And I think there are things on the show that are way more sexist than that.


Thanks for replying my post but I think you misunderstood my points. :| I don’t ‘blame’ Regina for anything. She is a scripted character. Even if she were real, it would not be my place to blame someone for what you described. My discussion is about a scripted character and, as such, one that could have had many developments. I meant to dwell on why the script had to make her ‘stumble’ on a guy, why the need to match her with someone as a mean of happiness. This has nothing to do with being weak or human but more to the cliché and conventional idea that everybody has to be matched. Even if it seems the direction of the character would not need such development. Your post even highlights the point that the ‘love of her son was all that she needed to be happy.’ Exactly! The script however undermined this as enough for the character and had to absolutely match her with someone (because … you are not really happy unless you are matched). Emma more so: she is just fine as single, unattached woman. The show has Snow/Charming and Rumple/Belle for couple development, why go on a match-match rampage for two characters that were good as single ladies? Why it has to be ‘everybody gets a rosy-cheeky baby in the end kind of ending' for happiness to be established?

I don’t mean this as a sexist notion created by men. On the contrary, it’s actually way more related to women’s ideas. One can say that is natural to believe everyone needs a partner to share their lives, mostly because we grow up reading these fairy tales stories where not one single character turns out to live ‘happily ever after… and single’. So as a viewer, it does seem to me that OUAT did lost a nice opportunity to use the irony of fairy tale show and come up with the innovating idea of main female characters ( Emma and Regina) that do just that.

On other note, the writers probably just try to keep the viewers happy so they keep watching. So the fact that these two characters couldn’t be left alone and made interesting without a man in their story line is not exactly due to a lack of imagination of the writers. Just a reflection of what everybody is coded to expect. Honestly, if the character was ours to write, how many of us would actually think of not making them matching with their own versions of a prince charming, right?
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Re: [3x22] There's No Place Like Home Discussion

Postby Danielsgrl03 » Wed May 14, 2014 7:09 pm

Her Mayorness wrote:But HOW on earth did Rumple allow them to carry a whole new person into the future?? That's what I am mostly upset about. Rumple goes through all the trouble to arrange for them to correct the interrupted event and then allows them baggage??


I've been thinking about this, and I think he did it on purpose. He can see bits of the future and I'm going to guess that he knew who she was and what would happen. During this whole thing he needed Regina to be angry and hateful. Maybe he knew this would bolster her anger for whatever is coming. He wasn't the guy then that he is now (not that he so much better now, but he's getting there).

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