[6x12] Murder Most Foul Discussion

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Did you like [6x12] Murder Most Foul?

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The Wiz of Oz
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[6x12] Murder Most Foul Discussion

Postby The Wiz of Oz » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:11 am

What did you think of [6x12] Murder Most Foul?

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Re: [6x12] Murder Most Foul Discussion

Postby The Wiz of Oz » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:21 am

Well well well HOOK did it and lied to David's face.. smh. I have no respect for him once again... Dirty Pirate
I love seeing David and James getting separated. But i swear Ruth said James was given away to save their farmland...
Pleasure island man they bought in apart of Pinocchio 's story nice..
I always love seeing August
Papa Charming was a broken man but tried to be a better father.
What is "Robin" u to? The Evil queen is in that box is my guess.
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Re: [6x12] Murder Most Foul Discussion

Postby facelesscreature » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:24 am

I loved this episode!

Josh's acting was the best I've seen it in this show.

You could tell that Hook didn't know he killed David's father until he saw the pages. I bet he's going to come clean to both Emma and David soon. I'm sure Hook doesn't have an alternate agenda.

What's in the box? Another curse? A heart? I'm interested in Robin's plans.

As for flaws:
I was under the impression that Rumple killed the sheriff of Nottingham in S2. He magically removed his tongue and beat him with his cane. We never saw him in SB after that scene. Did I miss something?

Also, did David really wake up Snow just so she could have a short chat with Regina? Then, she went back to sleep before the next day? I found this slightly odd.
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Re: [6x12] Murder Most Foul Discussion

Postby NickyHelp » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:26 am

I knew it! I knew it! Hook was Robert's killer from the beginning, just as what was hinted. And I so figured out that King George did not hire him. And even though King George tried to have Robert killed, someone else beat him to the job.

We finally get to see the story of how David and James were seperated from birth just as what was revealed in words from Ruth. Now we still have other stories that were told in words that still need to be revealed on screen.

That's four villains we know who murdered Snowing's parents:
1. Regina murdered Snow's father
2. King George murdered Charming's mother
3. Cora murdered Snow's mother
4. Captain Hook murdered Charming's father.

You know this reminded me of in Neverland (2011), that Hook murdered Peter Pan's father. Now we see Hook in Once Upon a time murder the father of another hero.

This reminds of during the time travel adventure, Charming from the past does not it, but he is talking to his father's killer (who is in disguise as Prince Charles) who is from the future.
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Re: [6x12] Murder Most Foul Discussion

Postby NickyHelp » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:15 am

Rumple and Robert have alot in common. They were both farmers and trying to be better fathers. And in the end, they both got their sons' love and full understanding.

Just like Rumple was, Robert was a good man trying to keep his family together and Hook was the villain behind both dramas, even though he killed one of them.
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Re: [6x12] Murder Most Foul Discussion

Postby jujubee » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:24 am

I actually quite enjoyed this episode.

Just off the cuff -

OK, first off - little David/James was ADORABLE. Also, it's about time we finally saw them as children. What's interesting is that like all villains, James started out not wanting to be a villain at all. Definite pattern there.

Even though I'm not a fan of his character, it was nice to see the continuity of August/Pinocchio in both past and present after bringing him back last episode. Glad he wasn't just a one time guest appearance.

Pleasure Island was pretty fantastic. Again, it brought Pinocchio back in a believable, pertinent way. And that place was seriously creepy. The design and music was perfect.

Loved how David and Killian worked together in the present and that Hook was actually the voice of reason there, especially in contrast to the end.

Rumple giving Robert the information because he sympathized with a father trying to reunite with his son? Wow. But also clearly there to re-establish Rumple's deep attachment to his children, as that's obviously going to play a major role the rest of the season.

Robin as a possible Bad Guy? Now THAT's new and unexpected. Yet it still follows through with how different all the Heroes were in the Wish Realm. Perhaps he's actually the soulmate of Evil Queen 2.0? He seems to have more in common with her. But also, was his coming to Storybrooke part of some plan? That makes it even more interesting. And I love it. It's a twist I didn't see coming.

facelesscreature wrote:You could tell that Hook didn't know he killed David's father until he saw the pages. I bet he's going to come clean to both Emma and David soon. I'm sure Hook doesn't have an alternate agenda.


Yes, this was pretty evident. I also agree he'll probably come clean, hopefully soon. But then there's the question of how it will be reconciled between Hook, David, and Emma, because it probably somehow will be though it's hard to see how.

As to Hook being the killer? I'm a bit conflicted because as soon as it was revealed that Robert was murdered, my first thought was that Hook did it. It was a feeling based on OUAT writing history and drama writing in general and, frankly, lack of viable options. For those reasons it felt the obvious choice and -purely personal -not a fan of "obvious". Making something go wrong just after they seem to be going right is not a new thing to OUAT.
- Just when Emma may finally open herself up to Graham, he's killed
- Just when Rumple's about to do the right thing and give Belle the real dagger, he sees the Hat and changes his mind.
- Just when Regina and Robin can reunite freely because Marian is really Zelena, Zelena's pregnant
- Just when David and Hook are really getting along, turns out Hook killed David's father
Felt like an "Of Course" moment to me the moment we knew of the murder.

On the other hand, I do like the way the writers did it by not showing it until the last minute and having David believe he knew it was King George (one of the few other reasonable possibilities). And of course there's the bitter irony that Hook was the one that got David to let go his revenge. Although it's typical of drama writing to contrast how well Hook and David were getting along to the big, bad reveal at the end. Still well done, though. Especially with the sheer brutality of it.

However, the big thing that confuses me about all that is that Robert told David he wanted "the truth", but when David throws the coin away, Robert smiles at him as if content. Is he not aware that David doesn't actually know the truth? Seemed a little weird.

facelesscreature wrote:As for flaws:
I was under the impression that Rumple killed the sheriff of Nottingham in S2. He magically removed his tongue and beat him with his cane. We never saw him in SB after that scene. Did I miss something?


Don't know for sure, but it was never shown definitively that Nottingham was dead. Perhaps he wasn't shown in Storybrooke because he just wasn't important?
Last edited by jujubee on Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [6x12] Murder Most Foul Discussion

Postby PunkMaister » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:54 am

:P Damn that was intense and dark it felt like an episode of Arrow. :P
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Re: [6x12] Murder Most Foul Discussion

Postby Tachs » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:33 pm

facelesscreature wrote:What's in the box? Another curse? A heart? I'm interested in Robin's plans.


I'm not totally sure. But I think back when we were first introduced to Robin. He was stealing something from Rumple's castle. I think it was that box. We never really knew why.

Also I totally don't understand why Zelena would even show up to yell at Regina to keep "Robin" away from baby Robin. It's like then why even tell him about her? Also I really wish there was something for Regina with Robin. But at least Regina isn't trying to force a relationship there. But still what else is Robin gonna do?

facelesscreature wrote:As for flaws:
Also, did David really wake up Snow just so she could have a short chat with Regina? Then, she went back to sleep before the next day? I found this slightly odd.


I agree I thought that was just weird. I thought maybe David was dreaming when he saw this fathers ghost, cause Snow was awake like just a minute ago talking to Regina before that scene. Just was strange editing.

I felt so bad that Hook lied to Emma, I guess it was small but still. I hated watching it. Then like what did Hook put in the potion? Was whatever he put in there suppose to work? I totally thought he put whatever that was in there to stop the potion from working.

Pleasure Island was neat, I really liked that it was like a dark carnival. I did wonder though, how did Pinocchio/August get there? From the Whale? I thought he and Geppetto landed on the beach after that, and that's when the Blue Fairy turned him into a real boy. So yeah...how and why did Pinocchio/August end up there?

And of course now there's a huge conflict. Hook killed David's father. Of course at the time Hook had no clue who that guy was. Just that he was some guy with a lot of gold near him. I guess he could have not killed him, but he did. I know Hook has changed, but will he still be changed if he keeps that from David and Emma?

I did like that it was an episode that was about Hook and David mostly.
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Re: [6x12] Murder Most Foul Discussion

Postby jujubee » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:19 pm

Further thoughts (after some time, which always helps):

1) I’m always for getting more Charming on the show and this episode proves why. Josh Dallas was fantastic! (Can't believe I forgot to mention this!)

2) What was with the Zelena scene? She just pops up, yells about Robin not taking the baby- as if this was ever mentioned! – then poofs away. I like Zelena, but aside from distracting Regina so that Robin could climb out the window, what was the point?

3) This was a great mix of drama and humor. David handcuffing Hook to the bike rack made me laugh. That’s at least four times that’s happened. And on further reflection the Nottingham thing – at the end of S5, most of the Camelot and Sherwood characters went through the portal. It’s like Nottingham was strolling by, saw all the Merry Men leaving and thought to himself, “nah”, and just kept walking.

4) One of the many big ol’ elephants in Regina’s “redemption arc”, if you will. There are still a bunch of hearts in her vault. Like many things from her past, it’s rarely brought up or addressed, at least not with much seriousness. Several points on this: A - There’s a bunch of people walking around without hearts! B – Regina acted indiscriminately, so she doesn’t who any of them are. C – There’s never been an attempt to try and make restitution for this. And Regina’s reaction to telling Robin is embarrassment.

5) Upon further reflection, that last scene with Robert and David is pretty clear. The truth he wanted David to know was about himself. He wanted David to know that at the end, he was trying to the right thing by his family. Who killed him, how, and why wasn’t important to him. It goes back to “wanting to be able to look his son in the eyes.” This will likely be significant in David reconciling with Hook.
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Re: [6x12] Murder Most Foul Discussion

Postby NickyHelp » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:40 am

jujubee wrote:I actually quite enjoyed this episode.

Just off the cuff -

OK, first off - little David/James was ADORABLE. Also, it's about time we finally saw them as children. What's interesting is that like all villains, James started out not wanting to be a villain at all. Definite pattern there.

Even though I'm not a fan of his character, it was nice to see the continuity of August/Pinocchio in both past and present after bringing him back last episode. Glad he wasn't just a one time guest appearance.

Pleasure Island was pretty fantastic. Again, it brought Pinocchio back in a believable, pertinent way. And that place was seriously creepy. The design and music was perfect.

Loved how David and Killian worked together in the present and that Hook was actually the voice of reason there, especially in contrast to the end.

Rumple giving Robert the information because he sympathized with a father trying to reunite with his son? Wow. But also clearly there to re-establish Rumple's deep attachment to his children, as that's obviously going to play a major role the rest of the season.

Robin as a possible Bad Guy? Now THAT's new and unexpected. Yet it still follows through with how different all the Heroes were in the Wish Realm. Perhaps he's actually the soulmate of Evil Queen 2.0? He seems to have more in common with her. But also, was his coming to Storybrooke part of some plan? That makes it even more interesting. And I love it. It's a twist I didn't see coming.

facelesscreature wrote:You could tell that Hook didn't know he killed David's father until he saw the pages. I bet he's going to come clean to both Emma and David soon. I'm sure Hook doesn't have an alternate agenda.


Yes, this was pretty evident. I also agree he'll probably come clean, hopefully soon. But then there's the question of how it will be reconciled between Hook, David, and Emma, because it probably somehow will be though it's hard to see how.

As to Hook being the killer? I'm a bit conflicted because as soon as it was revealed that Robert was murdered, my first thought was that Hook did it. It was a feeling based on OUAT writing history and drama writing in general and, frankly, lack of viable options. For those reasons it felt the obvious choice and -purely personal -not a fan of "obvious". Making something go wrong just after they seem to be going right is not a new thing to OUAT.
- Just when Emma may finally open herself up to Graham, he's killed
- Just when Rumple's about to do the right thing and give Belle the real dagger, he sees the Hat and changes his mind.
- Just when Regina and Robin can reunite freely because Marian is really Zelena, Zelena's pregnant
- Just when David and Hook are really getting along, turns out Hook killed David's father
Felt like an "Of Course" moment to me the moment we knew of the murder.

On the other hand, I do like the way the writers did it by not showing it until the last minute and having David believe he knew it was King George (one of the few other reasonable possibilities). And of course there's the bitter irony that Hook was the one that got David to let go his revenge. Although it's typical of drama writing to contrast how well Hook and David were getting along to the big, bad reveal at the end. Still well done, though. Especially with the sheer brutality of it.

However, the big thing that confuses me about all that is that Robert told David he wanted "the truth", but when David throws the coin away, Robert smiles at him as if content. Is he not aware that David doesn't actually know the truth? Seemed a little weird.

facelesscreature wrote:As for flaws:
I was under the impression that Rumple killed the sheriff of Nottingham in S2. He magically removed his tongue and beat him with his cane. We never saw him in SB after that scene. Did I miss something?


Don't know for sure, but it was never shown definitively that Nottingham was dead. Perhaps he wasn't shown in Storybrooke because he just wasn't important?
Robert was saying that he wants Charming to know the truth that he is not who he thought he was. And now he smiled cause he was satisfied to see that his boy now knows that he was a good man trying to keep his family together.

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