[3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Once Upon a Time spoilers for season 3.
HappyEndings

Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby HappyEndings » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:37 pm

eleruen wrote:I hope this scene includes some kind of apology or acknowledgement of what regina did to snow in ef right up to and including casting the curse. She doesnt have to have regrets, because it got her henry but some kind of acknowledgement or even better, remorse would be appropriate and is long overdue.


Yes, I total agree with you again eleruen that is why I am not on board with Snow being so forgiven when Regina has yet done what you said above. Also, to be fair Snow didn't but the heart back in Cora that was Regina but they really make it like Snow murder her when Regina could have stopped it. :shrug2:
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby misy » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:02 pm

Jennie wrote:

"misy wrote:
Are we even sure that is Regina's heart?
I mean, Zelena thinks it is, but that doesn't mean it is.
It could be any heart from the vault."


"That would be cool. An old switch-a-roo!


My thought, exactly!
"A smile relieves a heart that grieves"
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby The Wiz of Oz » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:16 pm

HappyEndings wrote:
eleruen wrote:I hope this scene includes some kind of apology or acknowledgement of what regina did to snow in ef right up to and including casting the curse. She doesnt have to have regrets, because it got her henry but some kind of acknowledgement or even better, remorse would be appropriate and is long overdue.


Yes, I total agree with you again eleruen that is why I am not on board with Snow being so forgiven when Regina has yet done what you said above. Also, to be fair Snow didn't but the heart back in Cora that was Regina but they really make it like Snow murder her when Regina could have stopped it. :shrug2:


Snow manipulated Regina into putting the heart back into Cora the same way Regina manipulated Sidney into killing Leopold with the snake.
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby ihr » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:41 pm

The Wiz of Oz wrote:
HappyEndings wrote:
eleruen wrote:I hope this scene includes some kind of apology or acknowledgement of what regina did to snow in ef right up to and including casting the curse. She doesnt have to have regrets, because it got her henry but some kind of acknowledgement or even better, remorse would be appropriate and is long overdue.


Yes, I total agree with you again eleruen that is why I am not on board with Snow being so forgiven when Regina has yet done what you said above. Also, to be fair Snow didn't but the heart back in Cora that was Regina but they really make it like Snow murder her when Regina could have stopped it. :shrug2:


Snow manipulated Regina into putting the heart back into Cora the same way Regina manipulated Sidney into killing Leopold with the snake.


Only Sydney wasn't Leopold's son. !!!!
He wasn't manipulated to kill his own parent.

This scene was long overdue and it reminded me why I still watch the show, even though I'm so frustrated sometimes. It was too short and too rushed. Regina and Snow need to process and talk about their history a lot more than just this scene. The show needs more real conversations between the characters and emotions and less action.
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby The Wiz of Oz » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:05 pm

It doesnt make a difference. Leopold trusted Sidney.
Snow knew what would happen when the heart was put back into Cora. Its like saying Snow held the gun but Regina pulled the trigger
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby ihr » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:13 pm

The Wiz of Oz wrote:It doesnt make a difference. Leopold trusted Sidney.
Snow knew what would happen when the heart was put back into Cora. Its like saying Snow held the gun but Regina pulled the trigger


My point was that you can't compare the 2 situations.
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby The Wiz of Oz » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:26 pm

If I recall right, Snow blamed Regina for Leopold death not Sidney. So Regina had every Right to blame Snow and not herself since she was manipulated into doing it. In both situations, 2 weak emotional people were manipulated into killing someone they either loved or trusted.
So both ladies deserve an apology from each other because each of them lost parent. And both were directly responsible for each one losing a parent
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby ihr » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:35 pm

The Wiz of Oz wrote:If I recall right, Snow blamed Regina for Leopold death not Sidney. So Regina had every Right to blame Snow and not herself since she was manipulated into doing it. In both situations, 2 weak emotional people were manipulated into killing someone they either loved or trusted.
So both ladies deserve an apology from each other because each of them lost parent. And both were directly responsible for each one losing a parent


Well, they were talking about mothers, Not Leopold.
I also think that they should have a longer conversations and more scenes between them dealing with the past.
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby aeverett » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:44 pm

The Wiz of Oz wrote:It doesnt make a difference. Leopold trusted Sidney.
Snow knew what would happen when the heart was put back into Cora. Its like saying Snow held the gun but Regina pulled the trigger

Bad analogy. What Snow did was load the gun in private then gave it to Regina telling her it was unloaded. Snow said it herself to Rumple, just getting Cora's heart meant she could prevent Cora from doing more damage and just as she told Regina, putting Cora's heart back would allow Cora to love her daughter. Snow didn't have to curse the heart, but she did. She murdered Cora in cold blood. Regina bears no responsibility for Cora's death as she had no idea the heart was cursed.
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby besiderunningwaters » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:20 pm

aeverett wrote:
The Wiz of Oz wrote:It doesnt make a difference. Leopold trusted Sidney.
Snow knew what would happen when the heart was put back into Cora. Its like saying Snow held the gun but Regina pulled the trigger

Bad analogy. What Snow did was load the gun in private then gave it to Regina telling her it was unloaded. Snow said it herself to Rumple, just getting Cora's heart meant she could prevent Cora from doing more damage and just as she told Regina, putting Cora's heart back would allow Cora to love her daughter. Snow didn't have to curse the heart, but she did. She murdered Cora in cold blood. Regina bears no responsibility for Cora's death as she had no idea the heart was cursed.


Except that if they'd just killed Cora directly, they would have still had an angry Regina on their hands, but with no Rumpelstiltskin to protect them. I don't like it, but I can understand why she did it. And no, Regina isn't responsible for her mother's death, however she chose to join her in trying to kill her son's family. She was trying to earn Henry's trust throughout the first half of the season, but going off and trying to kill people after being falsely accused of another murder isn't exactly the smartest thing in the world. Regina and Cora made their choices, and in doing so they kind of forced this reaction.
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby ihr » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:08 pm

besiderunningwaters wrote:
aeverett wrote:
The Wiz of Oz wrote:It doesnt make a difference. Leopold trusted Sidney.
Snow knew what would happen when the heart was put back into Cora. Its like saying Snow held the gun but Regina pulled the trigger

Bad analogy. What Snow did was load the gun in private then gave it to Regina telling her it was unloaded. Snow said it herself to Rumple, just getting Cora's heart meant she could prevent Cora from doing more damage and just as she told Regina, putting Cora's heart back would allow Cora to love her daughter. Snow didn't have to curse the heart, but she did. She murdered Cora in cold blood. Regina bears no responsibility for Cora's death as she had no idea the heart was cursed.


Except that if they'd just killed Cora directly, they would have still had an angry Regina on their hands, but with no Rumpelstiltskin to protect them. I don't like it, but I can understand why she did it. And no, Regina isn't responsible for her mother's death, however she chose to join her in trying to kill her son's family. She was trying to earn Henry's trust throughout the first half of the season, but going off and trying to kill people after being falsely accused of another murder isn't exactly the smartest thing in the world. Regina and Cora made their choices, and in doing so they kind of forced this reaction.

Not true, Snow made a choice. She didn't have to kill Cora. She wanted to. Said so herself. That's why her heart had darkened. Very understandable. She just found out that Cora murdered her mother and then Johanna right in front of her. No, the real despicable thing was using Regina. Regina was in very fragile state of mind (and Cora used it) and a lot of her emotional state of mind was tied to Snow's and Charming's (and Emma's) behaviour towards her. They are not blameless.
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby aeverett » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:10 pm

ihr wrote:Not true, Snow made a choice. She didn't have to kill Cora. She wanted to. Said so herself. That's why her heart had darkened. Very understandable. She just found out that Cora murdered her mother and then Johanna right in front of her. No, the real despicable thing was using Regina. Regina was in very fragile state of mind (and Cora used it) and a lot of her emotional state of mind was tied to Snow's and Charming's (and Emma's) behavior towards her. They are not blameless.

Emma was the most to blame. She was the town sheriff. She had an obligation to arrest Snow for killing Cora. Yes, Cora killed Eva and Johanna, but that's all the more reason to have captured Cora and held her for trial in Storybrooke (at least for Johanna's murder as only that one that took place in Storybrooke). Emma didn't bother to apply the law she was ELECTED to uphold. When law enforcement won't act for their own selfish reasons, vigilantism is the only justice left.
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby The Wiz of Oz » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:39 pm

It hard to arrest someone and put them on trial when they can disappear in a blink of an eye.

And Snow would have killed Cora regardless of Regina showed up or not. She was pissed off and she saw death as the only solution. Both her mother and mother figure was killed by the same woman and on her birthday. Personality that would have push me to the same edge. Snow is still paying the price for killing Cora. I bet the black heart will affect the new baby
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby aeverett » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:49 am

The Wiz of Oz wrote:It hard to arrest someone and put them on trial when they can disappear in a blink of an eye.

And Snow would have killed Cora regardless of Regina showed up or not. She was pissed off and she saw death as the only solution. Both her mother and mother figure was killed by the same woman and on her birthday. Personality that would have push me to the same edge. Snow is still paying the price for killing Cora. I bet the black heart will affect the new baby

That is why Snow's initial plan of getting Cora's heart and using it to stop her rampage was the correct, law abiding answer. Cora can't disappear if Emma holds her heart and tells her to get in the cell and stay there, but Snow wanted revenge. She had the chance to subdue Cora by getting the heart before Regina and her argument to Regina about getting her mother's love would have worked just as well whether or not the heart was cursed. Snow chose to murder. She's not paying. Paying is rotting in the town jail, not having lunch at Grannies and sleeping beside her Prince Charming each night. Paying is looking forward to years, if not decades, inside a cell. Paying is being judged the way any citizen in Storybrooke would be judged if they commited murder. Why is being chained in the dwarf mines good enough for George, yet Snow goes about her life? Her daughter is sheriff and Savior. Her husband is deputy. Nothing more, nothing less.
HappyEndings

Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby HappyEndings » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:03 am

Snow didn't want revenge I don't know where you are getting that out Snow was protecting her family do you honestly think by holding Cora's heart they would have controlled Cora come on Regina would have killed all of them to get Cora's heart back or Cora would have killed all of them she would have figured a way out let's get real here. :x

Snow didn't force Regina to put her mother's heart in that was Regina's choice good grief Regina is like 10 years older then Snow and if she couldn't think for herself then that is on her. "A STICK CANNOT CONTROL THE PERSON WHO PICKS IT UP"
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby eleruen » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:36 am

Misy-i also hope that zelena unknowingly has hold of someone else's heart...someone who is already dead. In the one of the video clips, i think the heart was dark and looked like regina's. If a switch occurs at all, via rumple or via robin hood, then perhaps it will happen after this scene.
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby The Wiz of Oz » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:41 am

HappyEndings wrote:Snow didn't want revenge I don't know where you are getting that out Snow was protecting her family do you honestly think by holding Cora's heart they would have controlled Cora come on Regina would have killed all of them to get Cora's heart back or Cora would have killed all of them she would have figured a way out let's get real here. :x

Snow didn't force Regina to put her mother's heart in that was Regina's choice good grief Regina is like 10 years older then Snow and if she couldn't think for herself then that is on her. "A STICK CANNOT CONTROL THE PERSON WHO PICKS IT UP"


If Snow had planned to control Cora to take her down, then she should have never took the candle from Rumple shop, lit the candle, said Cora's name, and then manipulated Regina into doing the deed unaware of what would happen once the heart went back into Cora.It was pure revenge. She was getting back at Cora for killing Eva and Johanna. if it wasnt revenge, then Snow's heart shouldn't have a black spot on it. Yes she tried to stop Regina but she should have never manipulated Regina into doing her dirty work.
Regina deserve that apology from Snow.

Even in the conversation Snow was clearly manipulating Regina:

Regina: You have no right to be here. And you have no right to that!

MMB: I was going to give it to you.

Regina: What?

MMB: She can’t love you, you know. She doesn’t have her heart. With it, maybe she can. That’s why you’ve never felt she loved you. She doesn’t have her heart. But I do.

Regina: You’re doing this for me?

MMB: Think about it. What would happen if Cora had her heart back? Back inside her?

Regina: She told me she took it out to protect herself.

MMB: And did it work? The person she was before… Do you think that person survived? She can’t love, so she can’t love you.

Regina: She always wanted the best for me. That’s love.

MMB: Imagine real love. You’d have a mother, and a start on making a family Henry could be a part of. Or, you could have her be the Dark One. The choice is yours.
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby mysticalflute » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:26 am

The Wiz of Oz wrote:
HappyEndings wrote:Snow didn't want revenge I don't know where you are getting that out Snow was protecting her family do you honestly think by holding Cora's heart they would have controlled Cora come on Regina would have killed all of them to get Cora's heart back or Cora would have killed all of them she would have figured a way out let's get real here. :x

Snow didn't force Regina to put her mother's heart in that was Regina's choice good grief Regina is like 10 years older then Snow and if she couldn't think for herself then that is on her. "A STICK CANNOT CONTROL THE PERSON WHO PICKS IT UP"


If Snow had planned to control Cora to take her down, then she should have never took the candle from Rumple shop, lit the candle, said Cora's name, and then manipulated Regina into doing the deed unaware of what would happen once the heart went back into Cora.It was pure revenge. She was getting back at Cora for killing Eva and Johanna. if it wasnt revenge, then Snow's heart shouldn't have a black spot on it. Yes she tried to stop Regina but she should have never manipulated Regina into doing her dirty work.
Regina deserve that apology from Snow.

Even in the conversation Snow was clearly manipulating Regina:

Regina: You have no right to be here. And you have no right to that!

MMB: I was going to give it to you.

Regina: What?

MMB: She can’t love you, you know. She doesn’t have her heart. With it, maybe she can. That’s why you’ve never felt she loved you. She doesn’t have her heart. But I do.

Regina: You’re doing this for me?

MMB: Think about it. What would happen if Cora had her heart back? Back inside her?

Regina: She told me she took it out to protect herself.

MMB: And did it work? The person she was before… Do you think that person survived? She can’t love, so she can’t love you.

Regina: She always wanted the best for me. That’s love.

MMB: Imagine real love. You’d have a mother, and a start on making a family Henry could be a part of. Or, you could have her be the Dark One. The choice is yours.



SHE HAD NO OTHER CHOICE! CORA HAD TO DIE. Snow was GOING to do it herself, but once Regina showed up she did the only thing she could. There was no way in hell Regina was going to let her out of the vault with Cora's heart.

Snow killed Cora in pure self-defense and should not have to apologize for it. Period.

If she DOES have to apologize for it, Regina needs to apologize for:
-Killing Leopold
-Sending Snow on the run to be hunted
-Ruining Snow's chance at motherhood
-Ruining Emma's life
-Abusing Henry
-Ruining the lives of the ENTIRE TOWN OF STORYBROOKE
-Locking Belle up

But NOOOO. These stupid villains get off while the heroes, who have risked life, limb and their happiness to save these morons lives, are made to feel incredible guilt for things they don't do unless they're under extreme pressure.
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/4386717/ - My fanfiction!
Intervention: AU - Emma and Snow in ACFTL.
Double Trouble: Rumbelle/Snowing double date!
Settling Down: AU - Emma and Neal.
The Truth: AU - Emma and Henry.
And more!
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby The Wiz of Oz » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:33 am

mysticalflute wrote:
SHE HAD NO OTHER CHOICE! CORA HAD TO DIE. Snow was GOING to do it herself, but once Regina showed up she did the only thing she could. There was no way in hell Regina was going to let her out of the vault with Cora's heart.

Snow killed Cora in pure self-defense and should not have to apologize for it. Period.

If she DOES have to apologize for it, Regina needs to apologize for:
-Killing Leopold
-Sending Snow on the run to be hunted
-Ruining Snow's chance at motherhood
-Ruining Emma's life
-Abusing Henry
-Ruining the lives of the ENTIRE TOWN OF STORYBROOKE
-Locking Belle up

But NOOOO. These stupid villains get off while the heroes, who have risked life, limb and their happiness to save these morons lives, are made to feel incredible guilt for things they don't do unless they're under extreme pressure.


All those selfish deeds is why Regina's heart is black as night.
Of all you listed,Regina shouldnt have to apologize to Snow for killing Leopold. Leopold locked Regina up and disrespected her by reading her personal journal. Leopold basely abused Regina.

Cora wasnt holding a knife to Snow's neck. At that time she had one goal in mind: get the Dark Ones power before he died.

Well this disagree it was self defense. Snow shouldnt have a black spot on her heart if what she did was self defense. between the revenge, murder and the manipulation Snow earn the black spot.
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Re: [3x18] Bleeding Through Spoilers

Postby Her Mayorness » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:25 am

Oh, Snow is guilty for murder all right, but so is Regina.
I don't see the reason to be upset Regina hasn't apologized yet because she is going to, by the end of the season. It's because Lana said in an interview
Spoiler:
Regina's heart will be pure as gold by the end of S3
I can't see that happening if she doesn't. So Snow shippers, just be patient. Remember she still doesn't have a heart inside her, black or pure.

What I find utterly strange in this discussion is that nobody acknowledges Snow's greatness. It is easy to hate (as seen above) but it takes a lot to give a heartfelt apology, and that is what Snow did. Regina did not, but acknowledged Cora killed Eva and that is one step closer to her apology to Snow. I want to hear that apology.

As for Regina apologizing to Henry, well she did apologize on the stairs in 2x2 as far as I remember and she did apologize to him for everything at least two more times. BUT apologizing for being ABUSIVE? WTH.. that's plain ridiculous and unfounded.
Before anyone starts throwing arguments in favor of abusive, answer one question - what if she had told him yes honey I am the evil queen and I cursed them, you are right. What then?
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